Do You Think The Parent Should Be Held Responsible Too?

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I have been following a case in my hometown about little girl who drowned at te public pool while in the care of her daycare. It has rocked our small town and I have posted before about this, giving updates on how the little girl was doing but here is a rundown of the situatation, followed by my question.

Daycare took trip to local pool, which has life guards (mostly teen girls).
Dcg was spotted by lifeguards at bottom of pool, pulled out, given CPR, and careflighted to nearby hospital.
She passed away about one month later after not being able to be taken of life support.

Daycare provider has been charged with negligent homicide and operating without a license.

The local head of social services (or the person in charge of licensing and inspection) is being charged also for basically not doing he job. (it appears she looked the other way in this case or at the very least, did not follow up with this particular daycare.
The city attorney is also filing a wrongful death suit against the city, as lifeguards were present and it is a public pool. (they specifically said the city is filing suit, not the family of the girl.)

Now, this is all hear say, but according to others, the dcp had 17 kids in her care and if she wa snot licensed, she would nly be able to have 5. Even with a license, she would only be able to have 7 + 2 SA. I heard she had an assistant with her at the pool and the kids were in two groups. I know nothing else about her, other than she is very well known in the community. Her family owns the local coffee shop as well.

So, here is my question. A little girl is dead and it looks like all in invovled in her daycare will be prosecuted. Do you think the parent holds any responsibility for putting her child in a daycare that is unlicensed and obviously over ratio? Would that be child endangerment? The reason I am curious is because I have had discussions with people and there have been mixed emotions. They all blame the daycare, but then also turn around and say that they cannot believe someone would knowingly enroll their kid in a daycare that had so many kids and then let them go to the pool no less. From what I have heard, mom knew the daycare situation, yet still sent her daughter. Again, all hear say, but if it is true, do you think the mom hold responsibility as well? (I say mom only, because I believe dad is out of the picture, although there may be a step dad involved.) Just curious what all of you think on this. Regardless, it is a sad case and my town is very upset about it. And if the suit against the city is won, it may be the end of our local pool, which is an amazing pool and I have been swimming in for almost 30 years

[Unregistered]

Only if you could prove she knew the rules regarding daycare in her state

[Blackcat31]

Yes!

Parents should be held accountable for many of tragic things that happen to their children that are often ruled accidental.

Using unlicensed care is only one of many many many things I feel parents should take some responsibility in. I know that not all parents understand the whole licensing process and whether someone should or shouldn't be licensed but I feel it is in some ways their responsibility as a parent to educate themselves about these things if they are going to use them.

[TXhomedaycare]

This is the first time I am hearing about this. It is sad for all parties involved. I do feel to a certain degree that anytime a parent decides to used unlicensed care they are taking a risk. I think if the childcare provider and the parent were penalized for this kind of thing it would happen a lot less. More parents would verify that childcare providers were licensed and that would be the end to most of this mess. Was the mother negligent for using unlicensed care? Yes. When I look at the definition of neglect I feel this mom did not provide the child with proper childcare in her abscence. When bad things happen everyone has to start blaming and finger pointing but not many thinking about if they contributed to the problem. The more we keep allowing people to pass the blame and sue unnecessarily the more people will continue to take risks and not make better choices.

[midaycare]

Yes!

Parents should be held accountable for many of tragic things that happen to their children that are often ruled accidental.

Using unlicensed care is only one of many many many things I feel parents should take some responsibility in. I know that not all parents understand the whole licensing process and whether someone should or shouldn't be licensed but I feel it is in some ways their responsibility as a parent to educate themselves about these things if they are going to use them.

A million times yes.

This is your child, for goodness sakes. I didn't put ds in daycare without knowing everything I needed to.

[Thriftylady]

I will say first of all that I think many times there are charges when there shouldn't be. An accident is just that.

BUT

Having said that in this case if you are going to press charges I have questions. First off I am speaking as someone who was trained in lifeguarding but never did it. And I am the mother of a lifeguard. Knowing how some pools operate I would have some questions. Were there enough guards on duty? Was the pool over capacity? If questions that that are answered improperly then yes there should be a case against the pool. I know for a fact these things do happen.

Next I will deal with the provider. Yes, she did wrong plain and simple BUT providers could not operate illegally and with way to many kids if one thing didn't happen, if parents didn't use them there wouldn't be an issue.

So... I think if the provider is going to be charged so should the parents. They CHOSE the provider, it is their job to use their eyes, ears, smell, touch and whatever else they have to monitor where there child is being cared for. Once they use a provider who is clearly breaking the rules, they have been put on notice that it may not be a safe place for their child.

We see it all the time in the news, in our towns etc illegal providers with way to many kids, following unsafe practices, etc and tragedy happens. Why are parents keeping to use these providers except for price? And a tragedy that happens because you didn't want to pay for safety is negligent.

[Unregistered]

I read this entire thing, makes ones head spin. Lot of things going on here imo and I don't think anyone will be doing any time. It will either be dismissed or they'll find the prosecutor is way out of bounds on this one. For one, doesn't matter about her not being licensed, but taking the kids to a pool was poor judgement especially if they couldn't swim. Why didn't the life guards not see the child struggling? Or the provider or helpers?? The parent allowed a child that couldn't swim to go on this field trip???? How about not traveling with such young kids, and not having that liability.

Lot's of problems here but in the end it's a accident, and I think that is what the ruling will be. Last week a licensed facility left a kid in NY behind, and he ended up sleeping on a park bench and thankfully was found. Trying to charge all these people sounds like politics and more going on imo.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

Many people in the community feel the city attorney is going overboard and that it was a terrible accident. I question why numerous adults and two lifeguards (they have two lifeguards on chairs and 3-4 that are on duty but not directly supervising the pool) did not see the child, but I have also heard that some kids don't struggle and can very quickly, and silently drown. The lifeguards pulled her from the water, but a close family friend of my MIL was there and is a nurse and she is the one who performed CPR, reviving the girl, who was then flown to the hospital, but was never able to breathe without support after that. As for the provider, another person I know through FB questioned how this provider was unlicensed, as she accepted childcare assistant, but in our state, you only have to be registered or a self declared provider to get CCA, so I am wondering if part of why the social services person was arrested is because they were falsely claiming those benefits. Even if she was registered or self declared, she could only have a max of 7 full time kids, so maybe she and the county officer were in cahoots and claiming assistance for way more kids than she would have been legally allowed to take? Not even sure if that is possible, but it makes me wonder.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

And again, this is pure word of mouth, but many are saying that the family is pushing very hard for charges to be pressed and even though the attorney says the family is not invovled int eh suit against the city, others feel they are pushing for it and if there are monetary damages, the family will be compensated. Again, I have no idea if that is true, but if it is, I feel it is unfair, as I think the family (mother specifically) is responsible for this situation as well. She said she never gave permission for the trip to the pool, but the girl had swim wear and according to others at the daycare, they went to the pool often and everyone knew it. There are two main daycares in the town and this is one of them. I don't understand how on of the largest daycares int he town could be unlicensed. I just don't get any of it, but I will be so pissed if this leads to the pool being shut down.

[Ariana]

I have mixed opinions on it. Where I am the vast majority of providers are unlicensed. Even if you are unlicensed the most you can have in your care is 5 children. There was an incident a few years ago where two providers had a pool play date with 10 kids and one of them drowned. There was nothing illegal about the situation but a child still drowned. They have since changed the rules and providers are no longer able to get together for play dates.

Drowning is the leading cause of death of children. It happens. However when it is a daycare all hell breaks loose and everyone involved gets charged. I know a woman who was at the cottage with her 2 year old and there were 5 adults present and he still fell in the water and nearly drowned!! Would they have charged her or the adults around with the death if he had died??

When a child dies everyone wants someone to pay for it. It is unfortunate that this lady had too many children in her care and she should be charged for that and shut down but can we honestly say that this was the reason for the child's death? Not sure. If other drownings are any indication I would say "NO". Even children in the care of their own parents drown.

[spedmommy4]

Yes!

Parents should be held accountable for many of tragic things that happen to their children that are often ruled accidental.

Using unlicensed care is only one of many many many things I feel parents should take some responsibility in. I know that not all parents understand the whole licensing process and whether someone should or shouldn't be licensed but I feel it is in some ways their responsibility as a parent to educate themselves about these things if they are going to use them.

I agree. I get that cost is a huge factor in childcare but I checked the licensing history of every family childcare and center that provided care for my kids. I checked references for babysitters. I was a struggling college student at one point but they are my babies. I wanted them safe and well cared for while I was at school. It is a parent's responsibility to vet the person they are considering leaving their little ones with.

[Play Care]

I have mixed opinions on it. Where I am the vast majority of providers are unlicensed. Even if you are unlicensed the most you can have in your care is 5 children. There was an incident a few years ago where two providers had a pool play date with 10 kids and one of them drowned. There was nothing illegal about the situation but a child still drowned. They have since changed the rules and providers are no longer able to get together for play dates.

Drowning is the leading cause of death of children. It happens. However when it is a daycare all hell breaks loose and everyone involved gets charged. I know a woman who was at the cottage with her 2 year old and there were 5 adults present and he still fell in the water and nearly drowned!! Would they have charged her or the adults around with the death if he had died??

When a child dies everyone wants someone to pay for it. It is unfortunate that this lady had too many children in her care and she should be charged for that and shut down but can we honestly say that this was the reason for the child's death? Not sure. If other drownings are any indication I would say "NO". Even children in the care of their own parents drown.

I had read an article a while back that said as a society we have come so far with safety that it has removed us from death - meaning we just don't see people die (they do so in hospitals, etc) and kids don't even attend funerals, etc. So when kids die in accidents, we MUST find fault. We MUST hold someone accountable. Someone MUST pay. The thinking is that there is no such thing as a true accident and everything is 100% preventable.
And of course, when one Monday morning quarterbacks, that is true.
It's led to a litigious society where everyone is afraid to allow anything (but WE don't know nothing about that )

[hope]

A parent leaving a child in illegal unlicensed care, especially when way over ratio, is the same to me as a parent leaving their child with a 7 year old. The parent knowingly let someone who is incapable of properly caring for their child take responsibility.

[Unregistered]

Yes too bad she wasn't licensed, then surely that child wouldn't have drown.

[hope]

Yes too bad she wasn't licensed, then surely that child wouldn't have drown.

I don't believe that her being licensed would have prevented the child's death but it would have held her accountable to keep better ratios. 17 children for a privider is way too many to be looked after properly, especially if swimming.