Preschoolers in Diapers. . .

[Crystal]

May I ask you a question? My sister's nephew is 13 and wets the bed almost every night. They have taken him to the doctor and there is no medical reason for this. His mom is the sort that gets mad and has probably shamed him for it (I think they started PT when he was 2 or 3), so I am not sure if she has really helped the situation, so much as she has made it worse. She tells him he has to clean it up, but doesn't follow through, so their basement reeks like urine. This is also an issue for his sister who is 9, but not quite as bad. They have tried an alarm to wake him up at night, but he sleeps like the dead, and quite honestly, I think they are too lazy to get up and go wake him up to go. I feel bad for him, though, because he won't spend the night with his friends and it is definitely effecting his social life. Any advice on how to handle this? I dobt his mom will listen but maybe I can offer some hints in a subtle way. It is just so out of hand at this point, that I am really worried about it and he is not even my family!

It is possible that the hormone that tells your bladder not to express urine is underactive. This happened with two of my children. The doctor prescribed a nasal spray hormone called Desmopressin to use at bed time. Instantly the bed wetting stopped. He had us stop using it every three months to see if the wetting returned. It did a couple of times, but in time their hormones kicked in and they no longer needed the meds.

There are also little "alarms" that can be attached to their clothing that will signal when they start wetting the bed. This will wake them up and help them start recognizing the feeling of needing to use the toilet when they are sleeping.

[spedmommy4]

Oh of course, I didn't start with any of mine until after two. My oldest was toilet trained by just under three. The next two were 2.5ish. I started with my daughter at 2.5 but she had developmental delays that were later diagnosed as Autism. We never pushed and she wasn't fully trained until the end of Kindergarten.

I have several enrolled now that will be 4 by the end of this year. All have high income parents that pushed academics so these kids are super smart, but they are woefully behind in self-help skills. We work on it here but it is a worrisome trend.

Thanks for the link...it supports what I was/am trying to say:

*Newer studies suggest no benefit of intensive training before 27 months of age.

*Mastery of the developmental skills required for toilet training occurs after 24 months of age


So AFTER a child turns 27 months, they should be easily trained without much intervention or fanfare from the caregiver.

However, IF the child does not have the developmental skills necessary (due to lazy parents or not being taught or for whatever reason...) BY 27 months, the learning process will be difficult and time consuming for all.

So according to what the AAP says, toilet learning can begin at about 27 months (give or take like any other age recommendation).

[Kabob]

It is possible that the hormone that tells your bladder not to express urine is underactive. This happened with two of my children. The doctor prescribed a nasal spray hormone called Desmopressin to use at bed time. Instantly the bed wetting stopped. He had us stop using it every three months to see if the wetting returned. It did a couple of times, but in time their hormones kicked in and they no longer needed the meds.

There are also little "alarms" that can be attached to their clothing that will signal when they start wetting the bed. This will wake them up and help them start recognizing the feeling of needing to use the toilet when they are sleeping.

Huh that's interesting. In my case, bed wetting was definitely a family thing. My mom, my mom's sister, and my mom's mom all wet the bed until they were 8-10 yo. It would seem genetics of some sort are involved.

I just never woke up until I was older. I used to be ashamed of it until I realized that I legitimately had no idea I was doing it...

[Starburst]

They tend to go to home daycares (especially if they offer preschool or some type of group education) because most centers/preschools require that kids are 100% potty trained before entering the program.

The last family I babysat for in CA the 3 year old boy would go #2 on the potty but often #1 in his diaper/pull up. The mom (SAHM) was looking for preschools for him to socialize (I was moving but she really wanted me to open my daycare there because she assumed he would be automatically accepted and I guess she assumed I would have a 100% peanut free program, which no child care programs in that small town were) and they all required he be potty trained.

[jenboo]

Thank you for your response! I think they did the adult diaper thing too, but there was this bid debate over whether that was enabling him or helping him, so I am not sure if they still use them. I really don't know what to think, but I definitely know he is not doing it on purpose. He is very embarassed about it. I just wish there was a miricale cure for it, because it is so tough to be a teenager as it is, let alone to have this issue. Hopefully, he can work it out soon and have one less thing on his plate as he goes through junior/high school.

My brother wet the bed until his teens. He ended up getting a pill from the Dr that he would take at bedtime and it kept him from peeing the bed. No idea what it was. A couple years later and he didn't need the pill anymore.

[Josiegirl]

Both my kids did not go on the potty until 3.5. You could call me lazy, but I just didn't want to make going to the bathroom a challenge. Around 3, I would start talking about the potty and wearing big kid underwear and just sort of throw it out there if they wanted to give it a try. One day, my son said he wanted to try and he went, so I put him in underwear and said, next time you feel the need, remember you have underwear on, so you need to go to the potty. The first time, he wet his underwear, so we put new ones and I told him to try for next time. Next time, he said, "I need to go pee!" and sprinted to the bathroom and made it. He is almost 6 and has never had an accident since. We did underwear at night too, with no issues, so all in all, it took him one day to be potty trained (technically a few hours). My daughter is 3.5 and has been potty trained for 3 months now. Same situtation except she has not had a single accident and sleeps in underwear at night with no problem. I don't believe in putting an age limit on potty training. I think it can make kids nervous and make parents stressed if it doesn't work out. This can lead to much longer term issues with the potty. My niece is an example. Sister started at 2 yeaars old and she is almost 3 and still having multiple "accidents" each day. Some may be ready at 2, but I find that just waiting it out seems to be easiest, imo.

I have a 3 yo dcg(just had her birthday)and we've started talking with her about it all, just like you mentioned. I'll bring her in every hour and suggest we try to go potty. I try not to push the dcks, because I know it can easily turn into a battle nobody will win. I also find, as you said, that to PT a 3 yo is usually such a quick experience compared to starting them at 18 months-2 yo. Dcks often come in after a weekend, accident free. To be honest here?? I loathe Potty-training and get so frustrated working week after week after week to train. So unless the child is showing huge signs of being ready, I'm happy to wait till they're 3 and start then.

[Unregistered]

I dont not think no kid over 2 or 2.5 should be in diapers. If there is a medical reason thats fine.I also start them early between 11 months -18months. Fully trained fully indepent taking them selfs to the bathroom by two years old 2.5 at the latest.I do believe if u teach they can do anything i dont think u need to wait for them to be ready just teach them and they can do anything. A long time I got a call needing childcare for 5 year-oldin diapers I couldn't believe it in all the years ive done this was my oldest kid in diapers, I thought it was gross but accepted this child because she had been raped and had behavior issues was in a behavior schoolshe just started aand they were pottytraining I agree to help.since what happen to her I understand. But no I would not accept kids over 2.5 in diapers or pull ups .I do strictly underwear I get potty training done in 2 weeks or less.im not sure if im lucky or really good at potty training. And yes the kids dont need to talk they can still go on there own. Ive also at kids walk really early witch really helps (9months).the parents are really thankful that I really care and get them trained so early no negative effects at all.the parents are glad not to have to battle potty training a older child . One lady that was new had a 1 1/2 year old and 2 1/2 year oldstart both trained in two weeks she was amazed and wish she found me earler.I dont think im the best but this can be done early and easy and fast

[NightOwl]

I am not disagreeing with this concept (I know lazy parenting delays the process) but 'parents that don't really parent' is a completely different topic and has nothing to do with physical development.

I could be THE perfect parent. Doing everything right. Guiding and disciplining my child, setting up good eating and sleeping routines and all the other things "perfect" parents do but it will have NO effect whatsoever on when the child acquires the skills necessary to be trained.

In my opinion, only a SMALL percentage of kids still in diapers at an older age is due to lazy parenting.

The rest is developmental....nature NOT nurture.

We cannot control 'nature'.

We can impact 'nurture' but it is still only part of a bigger picture.

I agree. I guess my nephew was in the minority. But then again, Idk many parents that are as lazy as my sis. For him, nurture, or lack thereof, had and continues to have a huge impact on him.

[NightOwl]

Thank you for your response! I think they did the adult diaper thing too, but there was this bid debate over whether that was enabling him or helping him, so I am not sure if they still use them. I really don't know what to think, but I definitely know he is not doing it on purpose. He is very embarassed about it. I just wish there was a miricale cure for it, because it is so tough to be a teenager as it is, let alone to have this issue. Hopefully, he can work it out soon and have one less thing on his plate as he goes through junior/high school.

The adult diaper is not enabling him. Enabling is something that happens when the person being enabled is doing something purposely and being allowed to continue it by the caregivers/parents. He can't help it, poor kid. And I know you know that, I just feel bad for him that his parents aren't supporting him more and would consider it a purposeful act.

[Leigh]

Thanks for the link...it supports what I was/am trying to say:

*Newer studies suggest no benefit of intensive training before 27 months of age.

*Mastery of the developmental skills required for toilet training occurs after 24 months of age


So AFTER a child turns 27 months, they should be easily trained without much intervention or fanfare from the caregiver.

However, IF the child does not have the developmental skills necessary (due to lazy parents or not being taught or for whatever reason...) BY 27 months, the learning process will be difficult and time consuming for all.

So according to what the AAP says, toilet learning can begin at about 27 months (give or take like any other age recommendation).

My pediatrician told me that he NEVER sees boys trained any earlier than 27 months, and most train around 3.5. Girls, he says, train around 3. I do not believe that kids attain all developmental readiness at 25 months. I don't know ANY 25 month old who can open the door to the bathroom, pull down their pants, climb on to the toilet, wipe their own butt, get down from the toilet, flush, then get their pants back on. Until those things can all happen, then the kid isn't the one being potty trained, IMO.

The kid that I have that was trained the youngest is currently 3years, 6 months. She pees and poops herself when she gets upset. I've not seen a kid who trained older do that. I just don't like pushing kids emotionally to train them.

[grateday]

Thats enough

Maybe this is a California thing but I am getting more and more calls from parents with 3 year olds (some nearly 4) who are nowhere near toilet trained. Do you all have age cut offs for accepting unpotty trained kiddos or policies regarding children this age with that have parents that aren't working on it? If you have policies, and don't mind sharing, I would love to see them. I'm considering revising mine.

I started encouraging bathroom time with my son at 2 years old. I knew about development and at the time he thought it was great. I ended up trying every type of way to work with him but to no avail. On the other end of the spectrum I had a family that expected me to have there child trained in a few months and that did not pan out because no where in our training does it say we should be forcing anything. Do we have potty breaks? Yes Are they about every hour or so? Yes

Potty training has been hard for my special needs kiddo. It is hard to clean poop out of a child the size of a 5 year old, but you adapt ways to do it.
I get why some people would not be able to care for certain kids because they don't have the ability to do so for....time....patience.....

My son is 4 and he is not able to developmentally and I am tired of parents who think they are better like it is some sort of competition and brag and talk about other families whos kids are not using the toilet. I am really sick of it. Learning to go to the bathroom is a developmental milestone. It comes when the child is developmentally ready. My son is on a lot of heavy medication that slows thinking, processing, response time, etc. He is not given special treatment or even coddled.

I think that the word it is time for a change in the wording of "training". I think it is confusing and it makes people believe that it is them that need to train.

Going to the bathroom is a developmental process that we aim for, encourage, but ultimately it is the child who develops into that readiness process on there own without force.

As a parent with a child who is developmentally delayed, I am sad when I see this. Even if your child is not developmentally delayed, they are at a different developmental levels broken into different categories than another child the same age. Children cannot always be at every milestone when you want to see it. You can have a late talker who is going potty early, etc.

I seem to be stuck finding someone in the same boat as me and it is lonely here. At times I feel judged and hurt.

[jenboo]

I had three families start their children at 2 yrs old.
Dcb1 is super street smart. He caught on real fast but then realized he could have accidents as a way to control... To get reactions of us... The potty training process took a full year.

Dcb2 was not ready but parents insisted. They spent many weekends doing the 3 day potty training stuff. At one point the child started freaking out about having to sit on the toilet.... A year later he still wasn't fully potty trained.

Dcb3 was definitely not ready but I was closing my daycare and the parents had a hard time finding a daycare that would take a two year old that wasn't potty trained I loved this family and we both agreed to go cold turkey with the diapers and see what happened. DCB caught in within a week and was fully trained within a month!

My point is that starting early (2 yes old) may work for some kids but it's not a magic age. Pushing kids when they aren't ready may end up working with some kids but not others. I think it needs to be individualized vs putting an age on it. Everyone develops differently.

[Unregistered]

I'm not familiar with this. Could you elaborate?

I have never had a normally developing child to go past 4 and not be potty trained. I have seen children go up to 5 and 6 if they also had other areas of delay.

I agree some children yank their parents' chains. My own nephew came to me at almost 4 and still wearing pull ups, which he readily used at home every day. I told him the very first day, after I got that pull up off and put undies on him, that HE would be cleaning up any "accidents" he had here. He said EWWWWW!! You know how many accidents he had here? ZERO. At home? Daily accidents. My sister is a slacker and tends to do whatever requires the least amount of effort, and I knew this was why he still wore pull ups.

I don't allow pull ups here at all for potty training. They're diapers, plain and simple. We go straight to underwear or those super thick, absorbent underwear, but no pull ups.

This reminds me of my SIL. I never took care of my nieces or nephews, but my MIL did despite my SIL never working a day in her life. Anyway, if SIL had her way they'd be entering college still wearing diapers and drinking from a bottle (but that's another story). I think there are certain signs, but as another poster said you can miss the window of opportunity. That just makes it harder to break them. My own niece would urinate and defecate on purpose in places. Like she did it once on a coffee table I had that had drawers. She just defecated and put in the drawer. My nieces and nephews often urinated or defecated in their pants until about the age of 10 when they didn't want to go something, especially at places like school where someone would be called to get them. Once I took them on a family trip despite my better judgement, because DH insisted, and they decided to all pee their pants because they wanted to stop at a convenience store. I said "No, now, you can sit here in your piss pants. If you keep the bad attitude, I won't let you change in the hotel. Call nanny or mommy. Go ahead. If you you do this any time we're actually out of the hotel, you're going to spend the whole day in underwear full of piss and ****. You know how to use the toilet and there's nothing wrong with any of you". Despite this stopping around me, they still did and one wondered why they had no friends at 12. I told her outright "Would you want to be friends with someone who smells like a toliet? No one has to be your friend". This is around the time it stopped with all of them.

[Controlled Chaos]

I think part of the disconnect for many of us of differing views is language and motive. Are you training or teaching? Is it about hygiene and personal responsibility or convenience and control? Are you introducing children to a concept and offering them tools or forcing a child to conform to a desirable behavior? Are you motivated by the child's cues, your past experiences as provider/parent or a dkcs parents.

I don't think introducing a child to a potty, or even have them sit on a potty at diaper change time is "potty training". I have children who are physically able (18m ish) sit on a potty for a sec before a put on a clean diaper. I see it as teaching them about where they will go eventually, teaching them the motor skill of sitting down on it and standing up. We cheer and high five to make it a happy place. I have no expectation of them going in the potty until they are 2-2.5. We only go once every 2 hours, like a regular diaper chance. I DO have children 18m - 2yo who will tell me they are wet or poopy and run into the bathroom (connected to playroom) so they get changed immediately after going. I see it as encouraging hygiene and self care, but again the focus isn't potty training. With this routine it is easy to tell when they are ready, and the child typically initiates the next step themselves.

As providers, we have children wash their hands in a sink way before they are ready to do it themselves. We offer infants and toddler spoons at meal times when they are still eating with their fingers. I see sitting on the potty as the same thing.

Most children in my care are potty trained before they turn 3.

I think its ok for providers to approach teaching toilet skills in a variety of different ways and on different time lines as long as they always keep the child's best interest at the heart of the experience.

[NightOwl]

This reminds me of my SIL. I never took care of my nieces or nephews, but my MIL did despite my SIL never working a day in her life. Anyway, if SIL had her way they'd be entering college still wearing diapers and drinking from a bottle (but that's another story). I think there are certain signs, but as another poster said you can miss the window of opportunity. That just makes it harder to break them. My own niece would urinate and defecate on purpose in places. Like she did it once on a coffee table I had that had drawers. She just defecated and put in the drawer. My nieces and nephews often urinated or defecated in their pants until about the age of 10 when they didn't want to go something, especially at places like school where someone would be called to get them. Once I took them on a family trip despite my better judgement, because DH insisted, and they decided to all pee their pants because they wanted to stop at a convenience store. I said "No, now, you can sit here in your piss pants. If you keep the bad attitude, I won't let you change in the hotel. Call nanny or mommy. Go ahead. If you you do this any time we're actually out of the hotel, you're going to spend the whole day in underwear full of piss and ****. You know how to use the toilet and there's nothing wrong with any of you". Despite this stopping around me, they still did and one wondered why they had no friends at 12. I told her outright "Would you want to be friends with someone who smells like a toliet? No one has to be your friend". This is around the time it stopped with all of them.

Ohhhhh that's ridiculous. 10 and 12 years old and doing it solely to manipulate? I don't spank my kids very often, but that would've been cause to whip them until they couldn't sit down.