That One Kid That Likes To Test Patience

[Kabob]

This dcb has been a repeated topic here for me. He's my biter/hitter/kicker/spitter/screamer/pusher/toy taker/overall boundary tester. He is a daily struggle. He also is the last to arrive and the first to go but he drains everyone's patience the most. In the time he isn't here, everyone is calm and mostly happy. The second he arrives, everyone is either screaming/crying or overexcited.

I have had him on probation before for behavior and then magically he got better after his parents tried a more strict schedule at home.

Then after the probation period he slowly crept right back to the same behaviors...constantly trying to harm others and take toys instead of play and generally testing boundaries. I redirect but often I end up having to have him play in a separate area for everyone's safety.

Now he has taken to randomly hitting the other kids with toys or hands.

Yesterday he tried to choke the baby (my walking 10 month old dd) with his hands while we were outside. Fortunately, I was right there and caught him before he harmed her, but he did it so quickly and without warning (he thought it was fun) that I ended up having to have him sit and play in another part of the yard (and it is huge) so he wouldn't do it again. Usually he doesn't have access to the baby (and often anyone else as I have to keep separating) for this very reason. He just hurts others without the usual warning signs (ie, he isn't mad or excited or anything...often the other child is literally just standing there doing nothing and he'll hit them).

Dh is home today and when I told him that I was dreading dcb's arrival, he was livid when I told him what dcb had been doing. He wants him gone today.

However, some of the behavior comes from lack of social skills and control since he is 2. He is verbal but prefers to grab rather than ask for the toy, for instance, as he gets such a big reaction from the other kids despite my efforts to teach them how to handle the situation. He actually is better than when he first started...he hasn't bitten anyone in months...although I don't know if it is because I'm on him like white on rice about not trying to "headbutt" others which is when he used to try to bite.

Do I let his parents know that he's back on probation again or do I just give 2 week's notice?

[Martha Stewart]

I think I would go ahead and give them notice. You would hate to think about what might happen if you couldn't be right on him, or if he had hurt that 10 month old. Other child safety would be my biggest concern and reason for termination.

[Blackcat31]

Here is what I heard:

• Repeated
• Biter/hitter/kicker/spitter/screamer/pusher/toy taker/overall boundary tester
• Daily struggle
• The second he arrives, everyone is either screaming/crying or overexcited
• ...slowly crept right back to the same behaviors
• ...for everyone's safety.
• Randomly hitting
• Tried to choke the baby
• He just hurts others without the usual warning signs

I think you answered your own question.

I'd give 2 weeks with the understanding that if he is aggressive AT ALL within the final 2 weeks he will be termed immediately. That is WAY too much for one provider and ALL the other kids to have to endure on a daily basis.

I think you clue was when you said..he was better while on probation. ie the parents tried for a certain amount of time and when the risk of losing their space was over, so was their attempt to curtail his behaviors...hence the creeping back to old habits

The parents were warned, had a chance and stopped now for whatever reason.

...and I'm sorry but NONE of that is normal for a 2 year old....I have several and none of them do that.

[finsup]

I get that 2 year olds can be challenging but that really sounds worse then 95% of the 2 year olds I know. For me he would have been gone at "" tried to choke the 10m old." God forbid you are busy at the time and don't get to him right away when he tries to do it again That could really hurt (and scare!!) A baby!

[melilley]

I had one that started at 18 months and is now 3.5. He did all the same things except for choking. I talked to mom and dad, told them I would give 2 weeks for him to change and they were working with me so I stuck it out. It didn't stop and I never termed because I love mom (stupid I know). WELL, he just in the last 6-8 months calmed down! He still is the most "active" one, but it's much better.

I will admit though that if I ever have a child like that again, I will term if everything I do is exhausted and the child is still the same. Those 2 years until he calmed down were hell for me and to this day, I know I should have termed. Dh was the same as yours, he was supportive of me terming.

I agree with BC. It sounds like you answered your own question.
It is very difficult to care for and constantly follow around a child who is like that when you have other children to care for.

[Kabob]

I think I did indeed answer my own question....I just need to write things out to sort things through, I guess.

I also was trying way more than I should have after I went to a child development class and when I asked the instructor about dcb's behavior, I was told it was all normal boundary testing behavior and that I just wasn't being patient because I don't have the same personality as dcb.

I then was told to try to teach him how to play since his hitting was most likely cause by him trying to engage the other children.

So, every Monday I spend the day trying to teach him to play by just sitting on the floor with him and playing. By Friday he is somewhat playing with toys instead of trying to take toys or break/climb things (if I make him sit and play). Monday is back to square one unless he is too tired to bother others.

It hasn't been working and he needs redirection/removal from the group for trying to hit/actually hitting about every 5-10 minutes on a bad day (unless he's separated, then I spend every five minutes redirecting him to his area or sitting and playing as he likes to climb/kick/destroy stuff). I try to minimize the amount of words/attention he gets for poor choices and give lots of positive attention when I catch him making a good choice.

Then he has these rare good days where I only have to redirect him every 30 to 40 minutes. His best days are still worse than another child's worst days but it's enough to make me wonder if I'm just overreacting and making progress so then I keep him and then we start the cycle again.

Usually he has good days after I point out his behavior to his parents. Often he has a rough day after his grandparents pick him up the day before...which happens more frequently now. Today he punched his mom in the face as she was handing him off to me at drop off...I instantly told him no hit and he started crying and his mom laughed and said he doesn't like being told "no" then left. Just situations like that remind me that they so are not on board with helping his social skills...

Anyway, I'll quit ranting...I just was hoping to hold off on terming until the house sold but he really is draining me the more I look at what I wrote about him. It is obvious I am getting stressed out and I feel bad for the other kids as they often just spend their time with him telling him stop or no...or listening to me constantly telling him no...

[Thriftylady]

I know we all want to "make a difference". Truth is we can't if the parents are not on board. I am afraid I would term this one.

[Blackcat31]

I think I did indeed answer my own question....I just need to write things out to sort things through, I guess.

I also was trying way more than I should have after I went to a child development class and when I asked the instructor about dcb's behavior, I was told it was all normal boundary testing behavior and that I just wasn't being patient because I don't have the same personality as dcb.

I then was told to try to teach him how to play since his hitting was most likely cause by him trying to engage the other children.

So, every Monday I spend the day trying to teach him to play by just sitting on the floor with him and playing. By Friday he is somewhat playing with toys instead of trying to take toys or break/climb things (if I make him sit and play). Monday is back to square one unless he is too tired to bother others.

It hasn't been working and he needs redirection/removal from the group for trying to hit/actually hitting about every 5-10 minutes on a bad day (unless he's separated, then I spend every five minutes redirecting him to his area or sitting and playing as he likes to climb/kick/destroy stuff). I try to minimize the amount of words/attention he gets for poor choices and give lots of positive attention when I catch him making a good choice.

Then he has these rare good days where I only have to redirect him every 30 to 40 minutes. His best days are still worse than another child's worst days but it's enough to make me wonder if I'm just overreacting and making progress so then I keep him and then we start the cycle again.

Usually he has good days after I point out his behavior to his parents. Often he has a rough day after his grandparents pick him up the day before...which happens more frequently now. Today he punched his mom in the face as she was handing him off to me at drop off...I instantly told him no hit and he started crying and his mom laughed and said he doesn't like being told "no" then left. Just situations like that remind me that they so are not on board with helping his social skills...

Anyway, I'll quit ranting...I just was hoping to hold off on terming until the house sold but he really is draining me the more I look at what I wrote about him. It is obvious I am getting stressed out and I feel bad for the other kids as they often just spend their time with him telling him stop or no...or listening to me constantly telling him no...

There is probably a little truth to that but as GROUP care providers its sometimes impossible to do everything we should be doing. Plus we are CARE providers that provide care 100% of the time the child is here and early child educators when the care part is taken care of. Sometimes the required care puts the education part on the back burner.

It would also be 100% true IF the child had a normal environment at home with parents that do everything right. kwim?

It's a perfect example of the difference between theory and practice.

[Kabob]

There is probably a little truth to that but as GROUP care providers its sometimes impossible to do everything we should be doing. Plus we are CARE providers that provide care 100% of the time the child is here and early child educators when the care part is taken care of. Sometimes the required care puts the education part on the back burner.

It would also be 100% true IF the child had a normal environment at home with parents that do everything right. kwim?

It's a perfect example of the difference between theory and practice.

Ok well now I feel less like a crappy daycare provider. The classes I took made me feel like the worst provider on earth for failing with this child.

I talked to dh too...I'm gonna have some bad news for dcm at pick up today...and she doesn't handle bad news well.

[Unregistered]

Today he punched his mom in the face as she was handing him off to me at drop off...I instantly told him no hit and he started crying and his mom laughed and said he doesn't like being told "no" then left.

Wow
Yeah, most people don't like being told no... duh. Hitting his mother and then saying that... wth

[Kabob]

Sigh. I didn't have the heart to give dcm a term notice today as dcb was an angel, mostly after nap time. Even dh said maybe I can give dcb another week even though he was adamant about terming earlier today.

I still talked to dcm and told her that I can't have another bad day with him or I will have to term and they'll need to find alternative care. She wasn't surprised at all. She said that since the time change, he has been going to bed very late and his behavior is terrible at home.

So it was confirmed that this is an issue at home that is affecting daycare and it explains some of why his behavior got worse after the probation period.

I just am annoyed with myself for caving all because he is a sweetie when he isn't being aggressive. I'm selling my house soon anyway but it's the principle of the matter...I'd rather not be stressed with him the next month...

[Thriftylady]

I find it easier to hold myself to these things if I do it in writing. I don't know why I guess because I can't say "oh nevermind I didn't mean it". LOL

[Kabob]

I find it easier to hold myself to these things if I do it in writing. I don't know why I guess because I can't say "oh nevermind I didn't mean it". LOL

My term notice must be in writing...but I just didn't give it to her so I gave her the lame "shape up or ship out" speech...

Running a business was a whole lot easier when there weren't cute little kids involved. Then I just fired people or told unruly customers to leave without feeling guilty at all...

[Kabob]

Well, dcb has been perfect (well, as perfect as a 2 yo can be) today. Seriously...dcm dropped him off saying "he should have a much better day today" (no idea why she said that as I have her drop off at the door and go due to past behavior).... and dcb hasn't even tried to harm another child today. He has been using his words...taking turns...waiting his turn...being gentle...and just generally completely different.

Dh thought dcb was absent until he saw him and then dh wondered if dcb was ok as this is the first time in weeks that he has been so calm.

If I wasn't moving, I would've termed yesterday and then felt like a jerk today after seeing drastic change in behavior. I'm hoping the last few weeks until I move remain this calm.

I still feel like an idiot for not terming yesterday...obviously dcm has the power to assist me in curbing dcb's behavior but just wasn't trying...