Fault? Just an Accident?

[TwinKristi]

And what I'm trying to say is that you need to stop trying to censor what other people say. We're all grown-ups here and should all know how to deal with honest criticism.

I have to agree. I don't always agree with all of what queen has to say but honestly this is the root of the problem. I was being WAY nicer than I wanted to be. Like hugely nicer. And I didn't say she's lucky I'm holding back and while you did say not verbatim that comment and what I said are hugely different.
A 2yr old died. Period. The parents weren't letting him play in the ocean alone and he drowned, they were walking down a street on vacation. This business had already been warned. If a child died at daycare and the provider had been warned of this risk before and was clearly breaking the rules to begin with how would you feel? That it's the parents fault for not knowing?

[permanentvacation]

Yes, I would say it straight to the parents and in the same general situation have a couple of times. No, I haven't seen a child die from their misbehaving actions. But I have seen them do things like run wild in a restaurant, get hurt, and the parents throw a fit at the manager about it being the company's fault that the table cut the kid. I bold-faced announced that they had been letting their kid run around all wild and HE ran into the table! It was HIS fault! Not the table's. I've had times at different stores when some kid gets wild, gets himself/herself hurt and the parents start ranting about the item that was in the kid's way that hurt the kid and I always inform the parent what truly happened. That no one else fell over the item/got hurt by the item, but since they were not watching the child, or were allowing the child to be wild, their child hurt themselves. I have also, a few times, told my neighbors' kids' parents what really happened to their child. When a dog finally had enough of a kid throwing rocks at him and poking sticks through the fence at him, and the dog started lunging at the kid trying to attack him through the fence, the kid ran home and told his mother about the dog trying to attack him. He of course left out that he was harassing the dog. The mother went to the dog's house hollering about how she's going to have the dog taken care of. I caught her before she got to the dog's house and told her all about how her son was throwing rocks and trying to poke the dog with sticks. Instead of 'taking care of the dog', she started going off on her kid. There have been a handful of times when I have seen one kid harassing another and the second kid finally stand up for him/herself either physically or verbally. The mean kid's mother/father would try to go off on the nice kid or nice kid's parents for that kid cussing out/threatening/or hitting their kid. Each time, I have told both sets of parents what I saw. My younger daughter got into God knows how many fights in middle school. Some, she was defending herself, others, she had started crap with someone. In each case, I told the Vice-Principal (we always worked with the Vice-Principal) and the other parents the entire story as I know it whether my child was in the right or not. Some of the things I knew from overhearing my child and her friends talking, some my daughter had told me herself, some I had seen on Twitter/Facebook, some I had witnessed at the mall/movies/etc. If I had seen or knew of my child starting crap with someone else, I would call the Vice-Principal myself and tell them what my daughter had been doing/saying/threatening to/about the other child. I did that to get the Vice-Principal to help me stop her before she actually got physical with someone or it escalated more than it already had.

Oh yes, I have no problem standing up for the person/company that I believe to be in the right. Often, my personal children tell me to leave it alone, keep out of their business, that I'm going to get myself beat up/killed, that I'm going to get them (my personal children) jumped by the older child of the parent that I am telling them about their misbehaved kid. But I keep putting my nose in their business. One of these days, I'm probably going to get myself shot, but until then, I will continue to let people know who did what right/wrong and who deserved to get punished, needed to be put in their place by their peers, etc. I was raised to have strong morals and I can't bring myself to see something wrong happen to someone/a company and blindly walk on past.

In the case of the boy and the statue that this thread is about, if the child was on the statue at all, I fully believe it's the child/parent's fault. And yes, if I had been there and witnessed the child on the statue and then seen it fall on the child, I would have informed the parents and whoever was involved (store manager, police, ambulance crew, whoever) that the child was on the statue. It wasn't that the statue simply fell over. The child being on it made it fall over. It was the child's fault that the statue fell over and it was the parent's fault (for not monitoring the child properly) that their child was able to get on the statue.

I absolutely can not stand it when a child misbehaves and the parents try to blame/sue the company for the child getting themselves hurt!

Now, if they were just walking past the statue, and no one touched it at all, and it simply fell over onto the child, then it would have been the company's fault for not securing the statue. But in this case, the statue fell over BECAUSE the child did something to it (stood on it, climbed on it, whatever he did). The child had no business being on the statue at all.

If a child goes to the clothing store and pulls on the clothes on the clothing rack and the rack falls on the kid and kills the kid, is it the store's fault? NO! It's the child's fault for pulling on the clothes on the rack and the parents' fault for not keeping the child from doing so.

[NightOwl]

Well, this took an unexpected turn...

[KidGrind]

It’s tragic for the little boy and all those who loved him.

I think equal responsibility should be placed on the art gallery and the parents. The parents should’ve not allowed they’re child to be on the stature due to his age. As an adult, I’ve stood near statures or my older children have stepped on or sat on a stature for a picture.

The art gallery because if they are going to display an art piece of the size it should be secure.

[NightOwl]

I agree with equal responsibility. The gallery should have known the statue would be a kid magnet and taken precautions. And the parents should have known the statue would be a kid magnet and also taken precautions to keep their child off of it.

[TwinKristi]

The difference between liability is that parents don't carry general liability insurance. This business does. The statue being there was a liability and they were warned previously about its danger and chose to do nothing. This wasn't inside the gallery so anyone walking by has access to it and I believe it's technically on city property, not private.
I don't see a 2yr old just being naughty and climbing on it as much as admiring it like 2yr olds do while sight-seeing and it falling over on him. A 30lb child shouldn't be able to pull something over like that. The business holds more liability IMO after being warned. There was no note saying no climbing or touching either. And really, having been here myself numerous times I just can't imagine this business being so naive to think they don't need to secure it. Just blocks away people are flipping smart cars on their sides and crashing cars into glass store fronts to steal things. Either they move it in and out every day and it's not as heavy as it appears to be or it's pretty heavy and stays there 24/7. Ultimately, by law, and not opinion, I believe the business will be held liable and the family won't. In this day and age we have to protect ourselves. We hold insurance for this exact reason because businesses (like ourselves) have to prevent accidents, we can't expect others to do so.

[Blackcat31]

The difference between liability is that parents don't carry general liability insurance. This business does. The statue being there was a liability and they were warned previously about its danger and chose to do nothing. This wasn't inside the gallery so anyone walking by has access to it and I believe it's technically on city property, not private.
I don't see a 2yr old just being naughty and climbing on it as much as admiring it like 2yr olds do while sight-seeing and it falling over on him. A 30lb child shouldn't be able to pull something over like that. The business holds more liability IMO after being warned. There was no note saying no climbing or touching either. And really, having been here myself numerous times I just can't imagine this business being so naive to think they don't need to secure it. Just blocks away people are flipping smart cars on their sides and crashing cars into glass store fronts to steal things. Either they move it in and out every day and it's not as heavy as it appears to be or it's pretty heavy and stays there 24/7. Ultimately, by law, and not opinion, I believe the business will be held liable and the family won't. In this day and age we have to protect ourselves. We hold insurance for this exact reason because businesses (like ourselves) have to prevent accidents, we can't expect others to do so.

We have to protect ourselves because others have stopped taking personal responsibility for their own actions.

Because people are so quick to blame others and not look at their own actions as having played a role in whatever, is exactly why our country is so sue happy about everything.

It's kind of like the chicken or the egg. Which comes first..kwim?

FWIW~ My comment has NOTHING to do with this story...I just made it in reference to what TwinKristi was saying.

[TwinKristi]

We have to protect ourselves because others have stopped taking personal responsibility for their own actions.

Because people are so quick to blame others and not look at their own actions as having played a role in whatever, is exactly why our country is so sue happy about everything.

It's kind of like the chicken or the egg. Which comes first..kwim?

FWIW~ My comment has NOTHING to do with this story...I just made it in reference to what TwinKristi was saying.

I agree with you, but unfortunately it's just the way things are now. Look at how we have to push for prepayment because so many providers get stiffed after working and not getting paid. An injury alone I could see the parents having more blame but for this statue to have the ability to kill a small child it should have been secured or moved elsewhere. Most parents don't bring their children in an art gallery so you really limit the liability to adults and many KNOW kids shouldn't climb or even touch something inside a gallery. But when it's on the street and accessible to every person out on the street (which some days are literally thousands) there should at the very least be a sign that says no touching/climbing which would then release them of liability in this case.

[drseuss]

I hesitate to form an opinion regarding fault in stories like this. All we hear is what the media reports, and we all know how that is. The fact that we live in an extremely litigious society really bothers me. I think it is a sign of a much larger problem, and a sad commentary on the times we are living in. It's not fair to come out with guns blazing at anybody because sometimes people are greedy liars who will take any opportunity to make a buck. Not that the parents in this story are those people, but because of people like that I will not be sitting here judging anybody based on what the media says. It's just sad and I pray for that family.

[itlw8]

Why is it the only thing that sticks in my head is the 20,000 they are raising for the child's funeral. WOW things cost a lot more than they do around here.

[Annalee]

We have to protect ourselves because others have stopped taking personal responsibility for their own actions.

Because people are so quick to blame others and not look at their own actions as having played a role in whatever, is exactly why our country is so sue happy about everything.

It's kind of like the chicken or the egg. Which comes first..kwim?

FWIW~ My comment has NOTHING to do with this story...I just made it in reference to what TwinKristi was saying.

Accountability/responsibility..... Too many people rationalize the "reason why" they did something or explain why someone "made them do it!" We live in a "no fault" society and sadly, depending on the judge, so does the court system.

[KidGrind]

Why is it the only thing that sticks in my head is the 20,000 they are raising for the child's funeral. WOW things cost a lot more than they do around here.

Don’t know where they live. Where my brother died and was buried, funeral expenses were about $13,000 - $14,000.

[TwinKristi]

Don’t know where they live. Where my brother died and was buried, funeral expenses were about $13,000 - $14,000.

They're from Utah but out here in northern CA so add to this the transfer of his body. So it could easily be $20k+

[drseuss]

Accountability/responsibility..... Too many people rationalize the "reason why" they did something or explain why someone "made them do it!" We live in a "no fault" society and sadly, depending on the judge, so does the court system.

Yes! And somewhere along the way, common sense flew right out the window. Who needs common sense when the court system can just come in and straighten up the mess?