How Long Should 4 Year Old Nap

[Lucy]

Believe me you... if you were a provider who was willing to do a twelve hour haul without a BIG break mid day... you would be killing it in your business.

I do provide this service. I don't make a killing. If I have a 4 yr old who I have determined does not benefit from a nap, and in fact loses sleep at night because of it, then I don't give them a nap. They sit and do quiet activities. I am fully capable of doing dishes while a kid colors, watches a dvd, or plays with a dollhouse. You make it sound like we have to sit WITH the kid, therefore not getting a break. Nope. I go about my bizness.

That being said, you also imply that parents would LOVE it if I didn't give their kid a nap. That's not always true. I have had many who want LONGER naps sometimes! They don't want to deal with a kid who is cranky when mom shows up. She can't even go to the grocery store to pick up two items because the kid is whiney. So I'm not sure why you think a no-nap policy would be so desirable to parents. To some, maybe, but not all. If they need it, they need it. If they don't, they don't. I see no value in forcing them to lay there. I actually find it demeaning.

[Country Kids]

Because if you do a no nap policy and the parents don't want to spend time with the child in the evening they can pick them up tired, feed them and head them straight to bed. Believe me parents are looking for child care that doesn't nap children so they are tired enough for a 6 or 7 oclock bedtime. I have one child that now fights naps and nap on the way home at 5 and then head to bed at 7:30.

[Lucy]

Because if you do a no nap policy and the parents don't want to spend time with the child in the evening they can pick them up tired, feed them and head them straight to bed. Believe me parents are looking for child care that doesn't nap children so they are tired enough for a 6 or 7 oclock bedtime. I have one child that now fights naps and nap on the way home at 5 and then head to bed at 7:30.

This child would not fit my criteria for "doesn't benefit from a nap". I don't want to be misunderstood. If they NEED one, they need one. I don't let them stay awake because mom & dad asked me to so they could put him to sleep earlier. Nuh-uh! It has to be the kid described by Unregistered - the kid who just lays there frustrated, and then can't sleep at night because they had such a long and un-necessary (for them) rest time. It's MY call. Not the kid, and not mom and dad.

[Crystal]

I do provide this service. I don't make a killing. If I have a 4 yr old who I have determined does not benefit from a nap, and in fact loses sleep at night because of it, then I don't give them a nap. They sit and do quiet activities. I am fully capable of doing dishes while a kid colors, watches a dvd, or plays with a dollhouse. You make it sound like we have to sit WITH the kid, therefore not getting a break. Nope. I go about my bizness.

That being said, you also imply that parents would LOVE it if I didn't give their kid a nap. That's not always true. I have had many who want LONGER naps sometimes! They don't want to deal with a kid who is cranky when mom shows up. She can't even go to the grocery store to pick up two items because the kid is whiney. So I'm not sure why you think a no-nap policy would be so desirable to parents. To some, maybe, but not all. If they need it, they need it. If they don't, they don't. I see no value in forcing them to lay there. I actually find it demeaning.

I completely, 100%, TOTALLY agree and do the same

[nannyde]

I do provide this service. I don't make a killing. If I have a 4 yr old who I have determined does not benefit from a nap, and in fact loses sleep at night because of it, then I don't give them a nap. They sit and do quiet activities. I am fully capable of doing dishes while a kid colors, watches a dvd, or plays with a dollhouse. You make it sound like we have to sit WITH the kid, therefore not getting a break. Nope. I go about my bizness.

That being said, you also imply that parents would LOVE it if I didn't give their kid a nap. That's not always true. I have had many who want LONGER naps sometimes! They don't want to deal with a kid who is cranky when mom shows up. She can't even go to the grocery store to pick up two items because the kid is whiney. So I'm not sure why you think a no-nap policy would be so desirable to parents. To some, maybe, but not all. If they need it, they need it. If they don't, they don't. I see no value in forcing them to lay there. I actually find it demeaning.

I'm not saying you are going to go to the bank if you are offering services only to kids who YOU think don't need a nap. I'm saying that you will make bank if you offer services to the kids who have PARENTS who say they don't need a nap.

If you marketed your daycare that you don't do ANY naps for any kid of any age unless parents request the nap you would have people knocking your door down to get in. There are LEGIONS of parents out there who want their kid up ALL........... DAY.............. LONG.

[Unregistered]

Maybe you need to look into having a stay at home mom watch him. We don't tend to make our kids nap forever for the same reason you don't want yours to nap forever. The environment is home-like and the group would be very small. You may not get all the bells and whistles these ladies offer, but let me tell you, your child will be fine without all that a "daycare provider" thinks kids need to be doing every day. When we need a little break, Sesame Street is still a wonderful show for kids. While your child is with us, he probably won't be told to GO PLAY TOYS because he'll be too busy learning to count while we bake, learn his colors while we sort clean socks, learn to be a helper while he puts toilet paper rolls in the cupboard, learn about plants when we water them, learn about the different kinds of birds after we've filled the bird feeder together. I'm happy to earn some money and offer a safe place for a little friend while I'm home. It's worked great for the families I've had so far.

A good provider is going to take in all and make a decision for what is best for your child when it comes to napping. Telling a child to GO Play Toys is a nice thing to do- you need to read more about NannyDe and her belief behind this, because it does make sense and works. It's not the only thing this child is doing all day. Smaller daycares verses centers, to me are better. Your child doesn't become a number in a center. He/She becomes extended family in a small group childcare. His needs are cared for faster and usually the kids grow up together. Not as much come and go. I am not downing Centers, just preference. There are good and bad in both. You really need to look around and find a good fit for your little love. Demanding all your wants and expecting that in any type of care system is not realistic. It has to work for the group as a whole. Asking that your child not sleep or sit quiet past two hours is reasonable. If your child is happy to go and happy when you pick them up to me that is what counts, and if your child is well looked out for when you can't be there to do that ......you know you have a good provider.

[Lucy]

I'm not saying you are going to go to the bank if you are offering services only to kids who YOU think don't need a nap. I'm saying that you will make bank if you offer services to the kids who have PARENTS who say they don't need a nap.

If you marketed your daycare that you don't do ANY naps for any kid of any age unless parents request the nap you would have people knocking your door down to get in. There are LEGIONS of parents out there who want their kid up ALL........... DAY.............. LONG.

Odd. I've never met ONE in 17 plus years who has asked for no nap. Hmmm. (Unless it was for the four year old who is aging out of one. Then we begin the discussions and trials.) I have had them say their kid needs MORE nap because they're so whiney.

[Cat Herder]

Odd. I've never met ONE in 17 plus years who has asked for no nap. Hmmm. (Unless it was for the four year old who is aging out of one. Then we begin the discussions and trials.) I have had them say their kid needs MORE nap because they're so whiney.

You are out in the country a bit, like me, right?

I think that is why we don't see it. Kids are more active out here. In the city/suburbs this seems to be more of an issue.

I have not seen it again once I made the move out here...

[Blackcat31]

You are out in the country a bit, like me, right?

I think that is why we don't see it. Kids are more active out here. In the city/suburbs this seems to be more of an issue.

I have not seen it again once I made the move out here...

That was my thought too.... We are pretty rural and most my dck's spend a majority of their time doing outside/physical activites.

In all my years, I have had only 1 ask for her child to not be napped. She was, sadly a parent who didn't want any face time with her child and he did go to bed at 6:30 after being at care from 7 AM until 5:30 PM. So, in my situation, it had nothing to do with the child's needs but about the parents.

[Unregistered]

A good provider is going to take in all and make a decision for what is best for your child when it comes to napping. Telling a child to GO Play Toys is a nice thing to do- you need to read more about NannyDe and her belief behind this, because it does make sense and works. It's not the only thing this child is doing all day. Smaller daycares verses centers, to me are better. Your child doesn't become a number in a center. He/She becomes extended family in a small group childcare. His needs are cared for faster and usually the kids grow up together. Not as much come and go. I am not downing Centers, just preference. There are good and bad in both. You really need to look around and find a good fit for your little love. Demanding all your wants and expecting that in any type of care system is not realistic. It has to work for the group as a whole. Asking that your child not sleep or sit quiet past two hours is reasonable. If your child is happy to go and happy when you pick them up to me that is what counts, and if your child is well looked out for when you can't be there to do that ......you know you have a good provider.

Good advice. If they are going home happy you have a good provider.

The child is four years old, he will tell mom all about his day. Plus he should be able to sit on a mat for a length of time to settle down or to have a quiet time.

In all my years a child merely falls asleep if they are tired, there is no forcing them. Here they can have a book or paint, but often IF I have them play they are not quiet and end up waking the other children.

Even a 4 yr old needs a quiet time if not a nap.

[Lucy]

You are out in the country a bit, like me, right?

I think that is why we don't see it. Kids are more active out here. In the city/suburbs this seems to be more of an issue.

I have not seen it again once I made the move out here...

Sort of in between. I am in a town of 15,000 people. We are a mixture of rural and urban, but its a pretty built up and quickly growing town. The "urban" is pushing out the "rural" pretty quickly. It's small-town mentality in that we feel safe to leave our doors unlocked, we are very friendly as if we all know each other, etc. We have 3 elementary schools, and 1 each of middle and high schools. We are 7 miles from a town of about 40,000, and 30 minutes from a metropolitan city of 600,000 population.

[momofboys]

Really?? When I pay someone for a service I don't expect to have to edit my families daily life for this service. I do not feel that waking up at 4am is a good solution. But good try.
That would STILL be disrupting my son's sleeping schedule. The big problem is that I want an in-home daycare that will allow my four year old to stay awake during your break time. When I was searching for an in-home daycare that would allow this, I did find providers that were willing to let my son go without the unnecessary nap. But there were other things I did not like. (Food provided, dirty home, too many kids, etc). I could never find one that I liked that didn't have the nap policy for older kids. I've settled on a center due to this, I'm happy with it. I would've been happier with a great in-home provider that met all of my/my child's needs, but was unable to find one. I came to this forum because I wanted to really question the nap thing. I really wanted to know why providers take these long breaks. I really wanted to know why I had to resort to putting my son in a center.

When I was doing IHDC all the kids took a nap - but it was never more than 2 hours total. And it was not a "2 hr break" for me either! Typically I spent a good hour or longer just cleaning up (if you have never cared for 5-6 or more kids at a time you don't realize how long it can take to clean up after lunch!), recording details of the kids' day, taking a chance to eat for ME, pee, etc! Usually if I was lucky I may have ended up with about a 10-15 min break. Regarding letting kids who are older stay up - sometimes it is not an issue of just letting the kid do something quiet or watch tv. My home is small - if the tv was on in my living room it would likely be disruptive to the children sleeping. For some kids who still nap & are older if "Tommy" is watching tv they will want to also. Another issue is if one child is up it's hard for the provider to really have anytime to herself. I had one mom who insisted (in the last 2 weeks of school) that her preschool daughter who had napped consistently & easily at my home the whole school year stop napping. She wanted me to let her watch a movie or do puzzles, etc. I was okay with it (the girl was 4 1/2) but the issue was the child would fall asleep everyday despite my efforts to "keep her awake!". She'd be sitting on the couch looking at books or doing puzzles & would fall asleep. I think that in a home daycare it is hard to do this (find someone who will let the kids stay up) because in most cases providers are working alone with no outside help. If you could walk a week in your provider's shoes you'd understand why she needs 1-2 hours "break" & in most cases the kids DO need the nap!

[mom2many]

I'm not saying you are going to go to the bank if you are offering services only to kids who YOU think don't need a nap. I'm saying that you will make bank if you offer services to the kids who have PARENTS who say they don't need a nap.

If you marketed your daycare that you don't do ANY naps for any kid of any age unless parents request the nap you would have people knocking your door down to get in. There are LEGIONS of parents out there who want their kid up ALL........... DAY.............. LONG.

PLEASE FORGIVE ME.. I did not take the time to read through all of the posts and I would like to say, that I did agree with Joyce and Crystal, but find this particular post to be absolutely ridiculous!

In all of the years and experience I've had, I find this to be complete and utter nonsense! Are you kidding?!?! I have NEVER had a parent want their child to be over tired and be knocking down my door b/c they want their child up all day. I think it's extremely condescending to parents to say this is their desire and to even imply that it would have monetary value marketing this is silly! I have NEVER known a parent who wants their child having melt downs and being over tired when they pick them up.

I was doing daycare in my home when all 3 of my own children gave up naps between the ages of 2 and 3. Yes, they fought it and yes, I had them lay down to rest. They did not sleep though. They did have early bed times and it was NOT so that I could get rid of my children. My youngest would willingly and often ask to go to bed around 8 pm.

I often have 2, 3 or 4 yo that will not fall asleep and I have never looked upon "nap time" as "my time off". I will have them lay down and watch a movie, read a book or play quietly, but it's a time for the house to be quiet, so that those napping can rest and sleep if they need it.

I open at 7am and close at 6pm and have for many years. I watch children 0-12 yo and with that comes flexibility and accommodating many different situations...some that nap and some that don't!

[mom2many]

That is EXACTLY what I am asking. Why is this so difficult? I think they need break from all the kids, yes. But why is it not possible to turn on a movie for the older kiddos, or give them a quiet activity, while you take your break? I sincerely DO NOT want my child to lie on a cot for that long. It is boring, and it disrupts his already established sleep patterns at home. He can watch a movie or play quietly while others sleep. He knows what it means to be quiet, because others are sleeping. As far as the landscaping example goes, your analogy is incorrect. If I were paying you to care for my son for nine hours, then you are being paid to care for him for nine hours. You are saying that I would pay you for nine hours, however my son would actually be in your home for 12 hours. (9+3=12). But no, he is in your home for 9 hours and you are taking a 3 hour break during this 9 hours. Meaning that you really are only caring for my son for 6 hours, because you have told him to lie quietly on his cot for 3 hours. (9-3=6).
& Mandy Jane, I don't think it is necessary to attempt to insult me with your sarcastic remarks. "I assume you DO know how to read? " What is up with that? If you want me to edit your grammar on that post, I can and will. Just let me know. I will be all over that.
I am not trying to insult anyone here, and I would like it very much if you did not insult me.
I appreciate that you all care enough for children to open your home up to them. But you are running a business, you are providing a service. You need to stop being so selfish and look at what your clients need, and compare that to what you need. There needs to be a good balance. And with most of the providers I looked at, the needs of the provider were put well above the clients. They wanted a break, no exceptions. They would try to explain to me that my child DOES need a nap. They would try to tell me that yes, they are negotiable. But when I questioned them in detail what my child would be doing during "nap time", they failed to prove that my child would not be lying down doing nothing at all.

I am obviously not finding any answers here. I had to put my son in a center, when I preferred the "home-setting" and the personalization you get with a home provider. I was not able to find any provider willing to actually budge on this nap time/break time thing. That is a very large break. And yes, your job is quite different then mine. But why did you choose this kind of work if you cannot keep up with children for a full 8 hours, even? I could not do that, so I chose to NOT open a daycare in my home. If I thought that I could handle 6-8 kids (homes that I looked at had this # of kids, I definitely do NOT want my son in a home with more children than that. That is a chaotic mess) in my home then I would consider the fact that I would need to actually care for them for at least 9 hours. Meaning, that I would need to tend to children who were old enough to stay awake during the day. I would require that children who get cranky have naps. I would consult with the parent about their child's crankiness and there would be a solution. I would not "drop" the family because a child functions well w/out a nap. That IS bad business. That is cruel to the child. If they get used to a daycare, love the kids they play with, love the providers, why would you drop them because they do not need a nap?
Like I said, I am getting no answers here.
Based on the info you HAVE provided, this is my conclusion:

My son will stay in a center. In-home providers are unable to fully care for my child because they cannot handle children who do not require a nap. They would much rather disrupt his sleeping habits rather than disrupt their break.

I agree with everything you stated, EXCEPT that I have been a "in-home provider" for over 25 years and want you to know that there are people like myself that support and believe in the same exact things you do!!!

I would never drop a child b/c they did not nap. Yes, there are times when I do not get a minutes peace, but that is IMHO...part of the job!

[Lucy]

PLEASE FORGIVE ME.. I did not take the time to read through all of the posts and I would like to say, that I did agree with Joyce and Crystal, but find this particular post to be absolutely ridiculous!

In all of the years and experience I've had, I find this to be complete and utter nonsense! Are you kidding?!?! I have NEVER had a parent want their child to be over tired and be knocking down my door b/c they want their child up all day. I think it's extremely condescending to parents to say this is their desire and to even imply that it would have monetary value marketing this is silly! I have NEVER known a parent who wants their child having melt downs and being over tired when they pick them up.

I was doing daycare in my home when all 3 of my own children gave up naps between the ages of 2 and 3. Yes, they fought it and yes, I had them lay down to rest. They did not sleep though. They did have early bed times and it was NOT so that I could get rid of my children. My youngest would willingly and often ask to go to bed around 8 pm.

I often have 2, 3 or 4 yo that will not fall asleep and I have never looked upon "nap time" as "my time off". I will have them lay down and watch a movie, read a book or play quietly, but it's a time for the house to be quiet, so that those napping can rest and sleep if they need it.

I open at 7am and close at 6pm and have for many years. I watch children 0-12 yo and with that comes flexibility and accommodating many different situations...some that nap and some that don't!

And to top it off... she (not mom2many - but the person she was quoting) has stated numerous times that she gets all her work done WHILE THE KIDS ARE UP. So this 3 hours is 100% down time. It's not like some of us who use naptime to do dishes and sweep. AND she has a teenager to clean and do paperwork.

Btw, Mom2Many, your daycare sounds a lot like mine.