Immunization Problem

[Blackcat31]

I had to write up a little deal and post it right next to my state license for anyone entering my home to see.....almost gotten written up over that at my last relicensing because at the time I had an non vaxing family.

She said it's a reg. You don't have to disclose who the family is, but you do have to notify others that there is one in care.


I'm not touching the original issue with a ten foot pole. I do however sympathise with any provider that ends up stuck in the middle like that......yish.

Hmm, I just had a meeting with my licensor a few days ago about a child on a delayed immunization schedule and one of the questions the DCM specifically wanted to know was do I have to inform the other parents and my licensor said no. There is nothing in the state rules and/or regulations stating you have to say anything.

I'd ask your licensor to show you that regulation in writing.

Not saying, she didn't try to write you up for it, I am just curious as to where she found that reg as my current, past and another gal searched and search and came up with nothing, when I asked before the above meeting.

[Blackcat31]

I personally would not take any un-vaxed kids because of the risks. It's seriously a bad idea not to vax your child.

In my state we have to inform each child's parent if we have a child that is not vaccinated.

I am baffled that your state thinks it's ok !

I agree!! But they put everyone else at risk! Keep them home!!

Why would it be baffling that my state allows children to be unvaccinated?

More and more parents every day are choosing to not vaccinate their children at all or delaying immunizations until they are older.

The children who ARE vaccinated aren't the ones who are at risk. The non-vaccinated kids are the ones who are at risk.

[blessed mom]

I have several non-vaxed kids in care.

I'm wondering how these other mom's know that you have an un-vaxed kid in care?

I am not allowed to share that info as it is considered confidential.

I have had mom's concerned (without knowing about anyone else) but I guess since it's their concern, I let them figure out how they are going to deal with it.

I wish I had better advice but I don't know what I would do.

Mom knows because the two of them are friends outside of daycare.

[blessed mom]

I understand the moms concern, but the baby can be exposed to non vaxed kids and adults in Walmart, in the dr office, at the store, ANYWHERE.

At least she should feel better knowing you hand wash. The people in the store, dr office etc may not.

Maybe explain to mom that the baby is actually less at risk there than at the dr office for a well baby visit. They can catch the flu, RSV and all kinds of serious issues just in a dr office.

Very good point!! A lot of people are not vaccinating. Unless you stay in a bubble and never go out for the first year she will be exposed. At least here she only has a few children to deal with aside from the baby and one of them is her toddler!

[Blackcat31]

Mom knows because the two of them are friends outside of daycare.

Aha...that makes sense then.

Honestly if I were you, I'd let the mom who has the concern figure it out.

Like a previous poster said, her child is going to be exposed to other non-vaccinated kids in every public place the baby goes.

I totally understand the caution and her worry. I really do, but I don't think it is fair of her to expect you to alter your business to meet HER personal requirements or needs.

I know the physician said to be cautious but imagine if her child was prone to getting colds, and the doctor said to make sure baby isn't exposed to the cold virus.... I would assume the mom would keep baby home then where he/she is the safest considering the cold virus is EVERYWHERE.

Not the same scenario but similar in that the person (or family) with the "special" requirement is the person (or family) who should have to adjust and not simply expect others to make alterations for them.

Kwim?

[blessed mom]

I wouldn't be in this situation-my understanding is that unvaccinated kids are not allowed in licensed care in my state (I could be wrong), but I would never accept a kid not vaccinated. Were I already in your position, I would tell the parents of the unvaccinated child that they can either get the vaccines or find other care because their child puts infants at risk.

In CA you can opt out of vaccinations if the parents don't believe in it. They simply sign a waiver and you keep it on file.

I am now wondering if there are "discrimination" issues if I asked the un-vaccinated child to vaccinate or leave because of the risks to babies. Not sure if that is the answer but if I had to pick I'd have to choose that child. He's only going to be here for another seven months and I have two babies coming with siblings that are already here. If the others left I'd have practically no kids!

[blessed mom]

Why would it be baffling that my state allows children to be unvaccinated?

More and more parents every day are choosing to not vaccinate their children at all or delaying immunizations until they are older.

The children who ARE vaccinated aren't the ones who are at risk. The non-vaccinated kids are the ones who are at risk.

Exactly, the non vaccinated kids are at risk...so mom was worried that the non vaccinated kid might contract something and expose her not yet fully vaccinated baby.

But...a good point was made that lots of people don't vaccinate so she may come into contact with non vaccinated people anywhere!

Let's not debate if vaccinations are good and bad though. I'm just trying to get through what I need to do here.

I think I'm leaning towards telling the moms that not everyone vaccinates and it's not just here but everywhere.

[blessed mom]

Aha...that makes sense then.

Honestly if I were you, I'd let the mom who has the concern figure it out.

Like a previous poster said, her child is going to be exposed to other non-vaccinated kids in every public place the baby goes.

I totally understand the caution and her worry. I really do, but I don't think it is fair of her to expect you to alter your business to meet HER personal requirements or needs.

I know the physician said to be cautious but imagine if her child was prone to getting colds, and the doctor said to make sure baby isn't exposed to the cold virus.... I would assume the mom would keep baby home then where he/she is the safest considering the cold virus is EVERYWHERE.

Not the same scenario but similar in that the person (or family) with the "special" requirement is the person (or family) who should have to adjust and not simply expect others to make alterations for them.

Kwim?

Yes, I'm leaning this way but I'm a little worried. Mom of the baby has her toddler here too. So if she left that would be two I wouldn't have. Another mom is PG and due in March. Will she want to leave too? If so I will lose four kids total...two toddlers and two babies! The un-vaccinated kid goes to kindergarten in June. Ugh...guess I just need to have faith. So far things have worked out and I really do have awesome kids and parents!!

[Blackcat31]

Yes, I'm leaning this way but I'm a little worried. Mom of the baby has her toddler here too. So if she left that would be two I wouldn't have. Another mom is PG and due in March. Will she want to leave too? If so I will lose four kids total...two toddlers and two babies! The un-vaccinated kid goes to kindergarten in June. Ugh...guess I just need to have faith. So far things have worked out and I really do have awesome kids and parents!!

Is her toddler being vaccinated on the normal vax schedule?

If so, her own toddler is exposing her newborn to MORE than the non-vaccinated kid would be.

I think babies are built to have some natural defenses and if she is planning to vaccinate her own newborn, they would start at around 2 months and since most infants don't start care until 6-8 weeks, her child will more than likely already have had one vaccination.

I know that isn't 100% coverage but it is a start and that start should atleast help minimize some of her concerns.

ANY time she is bringing the child to the clinic or even when she births the child, the child WILL be exposed.

In regards to your question about discrimination based on imms, I don't think refusing a non-vaccinated kid would be considered discrimination.

I don't know for sure though.

[TwinKristi]

You know MMR is the name of the vaccine, not a disease right? MMR vaccinates for several diseases......

I'm all for differing opinions but PLEASE base yours on fact before you post things that you obviously aren't educated on.

And for the record my fully MMR vaccinated child as well as myself (fully vaccinated) and many other members on my family (fully vaccinated) got the mumps so while vaccines can offer a measure of protection they are NOT the be all and end all. There was an "mumps epidemic" in my town 8 years ago and almost all cases were among the fully vaccinated. There were several hundred confirmed cases and it started at the university not with unvaccinated school children.

Not to mention the Pertussis outbreak a few years back and the majority of people spreading it were people who HAD been vaccinated and those who died were too young to be vaccinated! If a family chooses not to vaccinate that's "their" risk, it rarely if ever is a cause of vaccinated children getting sick so if the PPs are worried about these kids getting other people sick... It's isually the other way around! I've never understood the whole fear about unvaccinated kids since if you're vaccinated, doesn't that protect you? Where is the fear? For itty bitty babies? Keep your itty bitties home then or wrapped up snug next to mom to keep baby away from those germ particulates.
And just FYI- while the state tells you it's "illegal", they even did here during training in CA where it's very much not illegal, there is an exemption in every state for SOME reason whether it's religious, medical or just by choice. My youngest doesn't have a lot of his vaccines and there's nothing illegal about it. Not one parent has asked about the vaccinations of other kids in my care, even a preemie mom. When he goes to school I will sign a waiver just like any of my daycare kids would for here. I have no problems accepting unvaccinated kids at all. Kids are so over-vaccinated, it's a money making big-Pharma scam is what it is! I highly recommend anyone on the fence watch "The Greater Good" and make an educated choice not a brainwashed by our gov't choice.

[blessed mom]

Not to mention the Pertussis outbreak a few years back and the majority of people spreading it were people who HAD been vaccinated and those who died were too young to be vaccinated! If a family chooses not to vaccinate that's "their" risk, it rarely if ever is a cause of vaccinated children getting sick so if the PPs are worried about these kids getting other people sick... It's isually the other way around! I've never understood the whole fear about unvaccinated kids since if you're vaccinated, doesn't that protect you? Where is the fear? For itty bitty babies? Keep your itty bitties home then or wrapped up snug next to mom to keep baby away from those germ particulates.
And just FYI- while the state tells you it's "illegal", they even did here during training in CA where it's very much not illegal, there is an exemption in every state for SOME reason whether it's religious, medical or just by choice. My youngest doesn't have a lot of his vaccines and there's nothing illegal about it. Not one parent has asked about the vaccinations of other kids in my care, even a preemie mom. When he goes to school I will sign a waiver just like any of my daycare kids would for here. I have no problems accepting unvaccinated kids at all. Kids are so over-vaccinated, it's a money making big-Pharma scam is what it is! I highly recommend anyone on the fence watch "The Greater Good" and make an educated choice not a brainwashed by our gov't choice.

The mom of the infant is a single mom and has to have her children in daycare. She did mention wrapping the child and I have an infant holder to hold her with but I can't hold her all day long. We are also a preschool. I think the point that her baby will be exposed in the public anyway is a good one. Unless she just works and stays home all the time and I don't think that is going to happen! She has to get groceries and such.

[blessed mom]

Is her toddler being vaccinated on the normal vax schedule?

If so, her own toddler is exposing her newborn to MORE than the non-vaccinated kid would be.

I think babies are built to have some natural defenses and if she is planning to vaccinate her own newborn, they would start at around 2 months and since most infants don't start care until 6-8 weeks, her child will more than likely already have had one vaccination.

I know that isn't 100% coverage but it is a start and that start should atleast help minimize some of her concerns.

ANY time she is bringing the child to the clinic or even when she births the child, the child WILL be exposed.

In regards to your question about discrimination based on imms, I don't think refusing a non-vaccinated kid would be considered discrimination.

I don't know for sure though.

Yes, her toddler is vaccinated. How is the toddler exposing the baby to more then the un-immunized child? She is vaccinating the baby when it's time.

Good point, the clinic is probably full of un-vaccinated kids!

About discrimination...the concern is the un-vaccinated child has already been her for a year so termination after a year because of vaccinations might be considered "discrimination". Although...I doubt I'm going to go this route now anyway.

You guys have been a huge help!!! happyface

[Blackcat31]

Yes, her toddler is vaccinated. How is the toddler exposing the baby to more then the un-immunized child? She is vaccinating the baby when it's time.

Good point, the clinic is probably full of un-vaccinated kids!

About discrimination...the concern is the un-vaccinated child has already been her for a year so termination after a year because of vaccinations might be considered "discrimination". Although...I doubt I'm going to go this route now anyway.

You guys have been a huge help!!! happyface

Some immunizations shed after they are given, and can then be potentially "contagious" to non-vaxed kids...

I don't know the correct terminology but I've read that a million times. (Google vaccine shedding)

Plus the clinic being full of non-vaxed kids is true too but I was referring to the kids coming and going to get their imms....all that shedding in one place....

Vaccinated immunocompetent children can shed vaccine viruses for <3 weeks.
(http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/janak/100630)

[LaLa1923]

Why would it be baffling that my state allows children to be unvaccinated?

More and more parents every day are choosing to not vaccinate their children at all or delaying immunizations until they are older.

The children who ARE vaccinated aren't the ones who are at risk. The non-vaccinated kids are the ones who are at risk.

That's not the baffling part. I cannot believe your state does not require you to say something to the other parents.

[LaLa1923]

Why would it be baffling that my state allows children to be unvaccinated?

More and more parents every day are choosing to not vaccinate their children at all or delaying immunizations until they are older.

The children who ARE vaccinated aren't the ones who are at risk. The non-vaccinated kids are the ones who are at risk.

Not true! The have been covering the outbreaks for some time now. The ones that have not been vaccinated are getting sick and or passing it to those that are too small to be vaccinated.