What To Do With This Kid?

[Hunni Bee]

I have this. Same. Kid. If another kid is singing, he tries to make them stop. If kids are playing, he knocks over whatever they were doing or tries to take it. He tattles on them when they're not doing anything, laughs when they're hurt, pushes them out of their spots in line or on the carpet. But then he tries to make them play with him, which by about 10 am, no one wants to be near him. Then he gets aggressive. He really is a bully. I've posted about him before... I have no idea what to do. I've tried to have him shadow, but I can't have him sit out but a few minutes at a time (against policy). So he just rides roughshod over the kids most times...

[WImom]

I have this. Same. Kid. If another kid is singing, he tries to make them stop. If kids are playing, he knocks over whatever they were doing or tries to take it. He tattles on them when they're not doing anything, laughs when they're hurt, pushes them out of their spots in line or on the carpet. But then he tries to make them play with him, which by about 10 am, no one wants to be near him. Then he gets aggressive. He really is a bully. I've posted about him before... I have no idea what to do. I've tried to have him shadow, but I can't have him sit out but a few minutes at a time (against policy). So he just rides roughshod over the kids most times...

Yep, he does all that too. Yeah, I can only have him sit out for so long too. Now I didn't mention before but Daycare's post on Free Play got me thinking. He is so good after nap when it's me and him and maybe 2 other kids playing games, puzzles together. But free play and other times when I'm with another child, making lunch or when they have to get in line that's when I have all the problems. He told me he was mad at me today when I didn't let him have tv time (they watch a 20m show when I make lunch).

I do think nothing will change until it changes at home.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Yep, he does all that too. Yeah, I can only have him sit out for so long too. Now I didn't mention before but Daycare's post on Free Play got me thinking. He is so good after nap when it's me and him and maybe 2 other kids playing games, puzzles together. But free play and other times when I'm with another child, making lunch or when they have to get in line that's when I have all the problems. He told me he was mad at me today when I didn't let him have tv time (they watch a 20m show when I make lunch).

I do think nothing will change until it changes at home.

But he wouldn't be sitting out if he is shadowing you with a toy. He'd be playing by you, technically.

[WImom]

But he wouldn't be sitting out if he is shadowing you with a toy. He'd be playing by you, technically.

Gotcha.

[Blackcat31]

I do think nothing will change until it changes at home.

I don't always buy in to this theory...it really is dependent on each situation but IME really only applies more to infants and daily routines but not necessarily with preschoolers and behavior related issues.

I have lots of kids who are horrid at home but aren't that way for me.

I think kids are smart. They easily figure out appropriate behavior according to the environment.

quiet in the library, sit still in church, don't run in the grocery store, etc etc...

Even if mom and dad let him go hog wild at home, if you are consistent with removing him from the group and having him shadow you with his singular toy each and every time he is mean or bullying others, he will learn really fast and he will remember because you are consistent each and every time.

[mnemom]

I have been thinking about this thread all day. My kid is this kid, well not this exact kid but you know. He really ****s at social stuff. He is 6 now and is really impulsive, he still trips kids sometimes when they walk by him, or threatens to do naughty things. He was just diagnosised with ADHD. He was awful at 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 really LOL. I have done daycare since he was 9m old so I became really experienced in helping him deal with the other kids. Positive affirmation is huge for him as others have suggested. Also just pointing out what the right thing to do is. Like not "good boy" but being really specific like he is playing blocks nice I might say "Son, that is a nice way to play with block you are not knocking other blocks down. " But what is HUGE for DS is that he truly wants to play and interact with the other kids but he can't figure out how to intiate the play the right way. He will walk over to his sister and push her, instead of asking her to play something. He also doesn't get that she doesn't want to be pushed because he lacks real empathy and he is on to the next thing too quickly to process the situation. It really help(ed) to say to him Suzy doesn't like her picture colored on, if you want to talk to Suzy you could tell her how nice her picture looks. Or people do not like their blocks being knocked down how about we build the blocks back up and ask Max if we could play with him.

Maybe this won't help with this DCB, but for my kid is what his lack of social skills and awareness that was making him misbehave. He really wants to connect but just has a ton of problems doing it appropriately.

[Heidi]

I have been thinking about this thread all day. My kid is this kid, well not this exact kid but you know. He really ****s at social stuff. He is 6 now and is really impulsive, he still trips kids sometimes when they walk by him, or threatens to do naughty things. He was just diagnosised with ADHD. He was awful at 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 really LOL. I have done daycare since he was 9m old so I became really experienced in helping him deal with the other kids. Positive affirmation is huge for him as others have suggested. Also just pointing out what the right thing to do is. Like not "good boy" but being really specific like he is playing blocks nice I might say "Son, that is a nice way to play with block you are not knocking other blocks down. " But what is HUGE for DS is that he truly wants to play and interact with the other kids but he can't figure out how to intiate the play the right way. He will walk over to his sister and push her, instead of asking her to play something. He also doesn't get that she doesn't want to be pushed because he lacks real empathy and he is on to the next thing too quickly to process the situation. It really help(ed) to say to him Suzy doesn't like her picture colored on, if you want to talk to Suzy you could tell her how nice her picture looks. Or people do not like their blocks being knocked down how about we build the blocks back up and ask Max if we could play with him.

Maybe this won't help with this DCB, but for my kid is what his lack of social skills and awareness that was making him misbehave. He really wants to connect but just has a ton of problems doing it appropriately.

Sounds like OP's little man. From your description, it sounds like he doesn't really know what he IS supposed to do to connect with other kids. It sounds like OP, you want to keep him. So, maybe some role-play games could help. Make up some scenarios and see if he can come up with how he could...ask a friend to play, etc.

He also seems to be getting alot of attention for negative behavior; from you and other kids, plus then the 'talks" with his parents. This gives him power. I try to ignore some stuff (like the rasberries or "dang"). I think NanDe once suggested something like "did you say...diddlydoop? you didn't really say diddlydoop, did you!?" Difusing things with silliness.

If you have things to discuss with parents, call them later in the evening or write a note. Try not letting him be an audience to that for a while. Or better yet, just tell them the good stuff (find one good thing each day) in front of him, and write a note about the negatives, if you need to communicate it.

[Laurel]

I had a dcg whose behavior was getting really bad. Shadowing me and taking away privileges did nothing. Her parents would ask her what she did today and she would say followed *** all day after I was naughty. They would then say, well, you shouldn't be naughty. Let's go get some McD's or ice cream or whatever. They eventually pulled and went somewhere else. Ran into dcm a few weeks ago and she said dcg's behavior was really good for a few weeks after they left here, but is back to it. I just kind of chuckled in my head when she said, I guess maybe we do need to change somethings at home.

I hope that yours can straighten out with the shadowing and taking away privileges. Make it as boring as possible. A few years ago when I did that with another child, after a few days of shadowing, he told his mom he was too tired to be naughty anymore because it required so much walking.

:: Priceless!

Laurel

[WImom]

I have been thinking about this thread all day. My kid is this kid, well not this exact kid but you know. He really ****s at social stuff. He is 6 now and is really impulsive, he still trips kids sometimes when they walk by him, or threatens to do naughty things. He was just diagnosised with ADHD. He was awful at 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 really LOL. I have done daycare since he was 9m old so I became really experienced in helping him deal with the other kids. Positive affirmation is huge for him as others have suggested. Also just pointing out what the right thing to do is. Like not "good boy" but being really specific like he is playing blocks nice I might say "Son, that is a nice way to play with block you are not knocking other blocks down. " But what is HUGE for DS is that he truly wants to play and interact with the other kids but he can't figure out how to intiate the play the right way. He will walk over to his sister and push her, instead of asking her to play something. He also doesn't get that she doesn't want to be pushed because he lacks real empathy and he is on to the next thing too quickly to process the situation. It really help(ed) to say to him Suzy doesn't like her picture colored on, if you want to talk to Suzy you could tell her how nice her picture looks. Or people do not like their blocks being knocked down how about we build the blocks back up and ask Max if we could play with him.

Maybe this won't help with this DCB, but for my kid is what his lack of social skills and awareness that was making him misbehave. He really wants to connect but just has a ton of problems doing it appropriately.

Thank you for this!! I sometimes feel this way about him. I've been telling my husband I think he may have ADHD for awhile now since he is sooo impulsive with things he does and says. He's always moving and runs in the house (Is getting a little better with this but it has taken me since last Oct. to get the running is for outside to somewhat stick). I've been going back and forth for weeks on trying to figure out if it's what you are saying or just being a bully. I have a feeling his brother bullies him so he is just copying. I don't know this for sure though. Is it my place to suggest he get tested? I'm not a doctor or someone with a degree in child psychology so I just feel like it's not my place. Do I ask them if they considered taking him to the doctor regarding his behavior? Just let it be? I know he acts this way at home too.

I'm thinking instead of the normal "Shadowing" with him losing out he needs to shadow me in a lesson of learning to socialize? I normally don't play with the kids at free play. But I may have to start with him staying with me so he can see how to socialize. Maybe he can play games in the afternoon with me nicely is because we do it everyday and he now knows how to behave with that particular thing.

I'd love any more advice you may have. I see that he can be good and nice. You don't happen to know of any articles I could send his parents on the socializing thing, thought maybe that would help us work together.

[hhdc]

From what you wrote it does seem like he could have something else going on. My dd is 10 and has adhd and has always had impulse control issues. She also doesn't get social clues at all. We still have to explain things to her that other 10 year olds just get. I have to be very specific with her and so do her friends. She will continue to do annoying things until we tell her exactly why she needs to stop and how it makes us feel.

Quiet time by himself with play dough might be a really good calming activity for him. Would it work to have some things that he can do by himself when he can't be with the group? Not as a punishment or a reward, just as what he needs to be able to then rejoin the group.

Also, being very specific about how it makes other people feel when he does things. It really might be the case that he doesn't understand how what he does makes other people feel. And you might have to go over it many times with very concrete examples of when he might have felt that same way.

He might be better in smaller groups which is also why he is ok after nap and if it is clear what he is suppose to do. Free play might be overwhelming for him. Also, the copying what you and other kids are saying might be him trying to process it.