What To Do With This Kid?

[WImom]

I have DCB here that is 4y in Sept. He is constantly bugging kids, doing things on purpose to bug them. Talks back to me, copies things I say, and things kids say on purpose. He's obnoxious some days. It's weird he is really good on Mondays but the rest of the week not so much.

Time out's, removing him form the group (which I do everyday since he can't play nice for atleast one free play time). What makes me most annoyed is he does these things on purpose.. Some examples - A child was carrying our circle time mats for me and when they walked past him he swatted his hand at them so she would drop them. Another day a child was showing everyone his painting and DCB that was sitting next to him took his brush and painted on it.

He does stuff like this All.day.long!! It's useless asking if he is making a good choice since he always says Yes and smiles. I think he feels like he doesn't fit in possibily BUT if he's mean to everyone I'm not going to make them play with him. They still do most of the times anyway but they get frustrated with him quick. When he doesn't get his way he yells that he's not playing then marches off to the corner. Then after a few minutes he moves on to someone else. I also think he gets alot of this from his older school age brother.

What can I do with this child to make our day run better?

**Just now DCB told a kid that was putting is art project in his backpack that when his dad comes to pick him up he's going to throw out his project.

[Cradle2crayons]

I have DCB here that is 4y in Sept. He is constantly bugging kids, doing things on purpose to bug them. Talks back to me, copies things I say, and things kids say on purpose. He's obnoxious some days. It's weird he is really good on Mondays but the rest of the week not so much.

Time out's, removing him form the group (which I do everyday since he can't play nice for atleast one free play time). What makes me most annoyed is he does these things on purpose.. Some examples - A child was carrying our circle time mats for me and when they walked past him he swatted his hand at them so she would drop them. Another day a child was showing everyone his painting and DCB that was sitting next to him took his brush and painted on it.

He does stuff like this All.day.long!! It's useless asking if he is making a good choice since he always says Yes and smiles. I think he feels like he doesn't fit in possibily BUT if he's mean to everyone I'm not going to make them play with him. They still do most of the times anyway but they get frustrated with him quick. When he doesn't get his way he yells that he's not playing then marches off to the corner. Then after a few minutes he moves on to someone else. I also think he gets alot of this from his older school age brother.

What can I do with this child to make our day run better?

Have you tried stopping him, explaining his bad choice, etc and then if he once passes by someone and doesn't do the undesirable behavior, making a huge deal out of the positive?? It sounds to me as if at home, having an older borer, the only way he can get attention is doing something not good. So give him LOTS of positive re enforcement....

If you've already tried that, I'm out of ideas... For those who make a lot of bad choices in a day, that's been my experience. Lots of positive re enforcement. It takes a week or so, but it usually dos work.

[WImom]

Yeah, I've tried the positive behavior thing. Even last Monday he was soo good. I made a big deal, gave him a cool sticker for his shirt at pick up. Dad and I made a big deal at pick up. Next day came in and was so naughty the whole day and the rest of the week.

His phrase of choice last week was "Dang" after everything. I started giving time outs for it and then it stopped. Now this week he keeps blowing rasperries. Everyweek is something new.

If I wasn't losing 4 kids to K5 this summer/fall I'd terminate. Maybe he'll change when they leave???

[Blackcat31]

Personally, I'd make him my shadow all day long. If you move, so does he.

Do NOT let him out of your sight.

I know he is 4 but no way would I allow him to be such a bully like that.

If you do have to have him leave your side, do not allow him to play or interact with the other kids at all.

As far as the painting goes, I'd have had him stand right next to me but not allowed him to paint. Painting is a privilege and he needs to earn.

Make him earn every bit of his freedom back.

What do his parents say about this behavior?

I know you said he might feel like he doesn't fit in or that he may be picking up this behavior from his older sibling but in all honesty those are not reasons to be allowed to be so mean to others. I don't are where a child picks up or learns a behavior like that....just don't do it here.

[WImom]

I do the seperate/shadow thing but not all day. Right now he's playing at a table by himself with playdoh because he kept taking other kids stuff.

Today he has a circle time mat away from the other kids that he is allowed to play on the whole morning.

I think I will try and do the seperate/shadowing all day and make him earn his place back. I was doing where he got a chance at each activity but then when he messed up he was out. Never tried all day.

I agree with you on the behavior. It seems like the parents use the "brother" excuse.

[Blackcat31]

I do the seperate/shadow thing but not all day. Right now he's playing at a table by himself with playdoh because he kept taking other kids stuff.
Today he has a circle time mat away from the other kids that he is allowed to play on the whole morning.

I think I will try and do the seperate/shadowing all day and make him earn his place back. I was doing where he got a chance at each activity but then when he messed up he was out. Never tried all day.

I agree with you on the behavior. It seems like the parents use the "brother" excuse.

See, he is being rewarded for the bad behavior. He takes things from others and the consequence is he gets to play Play-doh ALONE at the table away from all the other kids.

Do you see how this is a reward for him?

He gets to do a fun activity with NO ONE else to bother him or get into his "spot light".

Smart kid.

I wouldn't even let him play anything....just shadow you all day.

Maybe he can earn ONE toy or activity back. If he blows it, then start over again but I would avoid letting do anything or any activity by himself....that seems to be what he wants.

Hang in there...you just have be more patient than him

[My3cents]

I have DCB here that is 4y in Sept. He is constantly bugging kids, doing things on purpose to bug them. Talks back to me, copies things I say, and things kids say on purpose. He's obnoxious some days. It's weird he is really good on Mondays but the rest of the week not so much.

Time out's, removing him form the group (which I do everyday since he can't play nice for atleast one free play time). What makes me most annoyed is he does these things on purpose.. Some examples - A child was carrying our circle time mats for me and when they walked past him he swatted his hand at them so she would drop them. Another day a child was showing everyone his painting and DCB that was sitting next to him took his brush and painted on it.

He does stuff like this All.day.long!! It's useless asking if he is making a good choice since he always says Yes and smiles. I think he feels like he doesn't fit in possibily BUT if he's mean to everyone I'm not going to make them play with him. They still do most of the times anyway but they get frustrated with him quick. When he doesn't get his way he yells that he's not playing then marches off to the corner. Then after a few minutes he moves on to someone else. I also think he gets alot of this from his older school age brother.

What can I do with this child to make our day run better?

**Just now DCB told a kid that was putting is art project in his backpack that when his dad comes to pick him up he's going to throw out his project.

I might have caught him off guard and said to him, here I will throw it out for you and tossed it in the garbage myself. Then I would have told him I would be having a talk with his father when he picks him up.

Try talking one on one with him and asking him why he is doing the things he is doing and how you can help him to make better choices...... I know this is lame but it is all I have for you at this point. Broken record every time he does something on the off. Eventually he might get it. I do know talking with the parents sometimes and asking them to talk to the child does seem to help here, if for only a couple of days, but then again broken record and hoping for the eventual bliss of not doing those things anymore. Good luck-

[WImom]

I might have caught him off guard and said to him, here I will throw it out for you and tossed it in the garbage myself. Then I would have told him I would be having a talk with his father when he picks him up.

Try talking one on one with him and asking him why he is doing the things he is doing and how you can help him to make better choices...... I know this is lame but it is all I have for you at this point. Broken record every time he does something on the off. Eventually he might get it. I do know talking with the parents sometimes and asking them to talk to the child does seem to help here, if for only a couple of days, but then again broken record and hoping for the eventual bliss of not doing those things anymore. Good luck-

Oh, DCB told another DCB that that kids dad was going to throw out his project. (To hurt the other kids feelings)

[WImom]

See, he is being rewarded for the bad behavior. He takes things from others and the consequence is he gets to play Play-doh ALONE at the table away from all the other kids.

Do you see how this is a reward for him?

He gets to do a fun activity with NO ONE else to bother him or get into his "spot light".

Smart kid.

I wouldn't even let him play anything....just shadow you all day.

Maybe he can earn ONE toy or activity back. If he blows it, then start over again but I would avoid letting do anything or any activity by himself....that seems to be what he wants.

Hang in there...you just have be more patient than him

That makes sense. So you start each day out fresh though? He can play with everyone until he starts bullying?

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Personally, I'd make him my shadow all day long. If you move, so does he.

Do NOT let him out of your sight.

I know he is 4 but no way would I allow him to be such a bully like that.

If you do have to have him leave your side, do not allow him to play or interact with the other kids at all.

As far as the painting goes, I'd have had him stand right next to me but not allowed him to paint. Painting is a privilege and he needs to earn.

Make him earn every bit of his freedom back.

What do his parents say about this behavior?

I know you said he might feel like he doesn't fit in or that he may be picking up this behavior from his older sibling but in all honesty those are not reasons to be allowed to be so mean to others. I don't are where a child picks up or learns a behavior like that....just don't do it here.

I'd do the same thing.

I'd also IMMEDIATELY send to time out for any undesirable/rude behavior without saying a word. I'd point with a stern face.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

See, he is being rewarded for the bad behavior. He takes things from others and the consequence is he gets to play Play-doh ALONE at the table away from all the other kids.

Do you see how this is a reward for him?

He gets to do a fun activity with NO ONE else to bother him or get into his "spot light".

Smart kid.

I wouldn't even let him play anything....just shadow you all day.

Maybe he can earn ONE toy or activity back. If he blows it, then start over again but I would avoid letting do anything or any activity by himself....that seems to be what he wants.

Hang in there...you just have be more patient than him

If mine can't play nicely with others, they get to shadow me and get 1 toy or books. That's it. They don't get to choose, I do. It gets really boring really fast for them as they watch their friends laughing and having a great time while they're sitting at my feet playing with their one toy.

The only phrase I say to them if they try to engage ME (I'm not there to entertain them when they're in trouble...nu-uh) is, "Those that can't play nicely with their friends get to play alone." in a monotone voice.

[Blackcat31]

That makes sense. So you start each day out fresh though? He can play with everyone until he starts bullying?

Yep. Start fresh each day.

I do it just like EntropyControlSpecialist described.

[WImom]

Thanks everyone!

[countrymom]

ok, you know what, you can't fix this until the parents fix it at home. Do you think that one day he woke up and starting saying the word "dang" nope, I bet you that he sees this at home and sees the response that he gets so now he's trying it with you. Its very exhausting, but fixable.

wow you ladies are mean, but I'm mean too. I just now point to the corner and they know that I don't put up with bad behavior. You need to be on him like glue, the minute he does something bad, you need to have a consequence. As for saying that rude remark to the kid, I would tell him "johnny that wasn't very nice and you hurt your friends feelings, you need to say sorry" and if he continues, he doesn't get to do art anymore.

[mema]

I had a dcg whose behavior was getting really bad. Shadowing me and taking away privileges did nothing. Her parents would ask her what she did today and she would say followed *** all day after I was naughty. They would then say, well, you shouldn't be naughty. Let's go get some McD's or ice cream or whatever. They eventually pulled and went somewhere else. Ran into dcm a few weeks ago and she said dcg's behavior was really good for a few weeks after they left here, but is back to it. I just kind of chuckled in my head when she said, I guess maybe we do need to change somethings at home.

I hope that yours can straighten out with the shadowing and taking away privileges. Make it as boring as possible. A few years ago when I did that with another child, after a few days of shadowing, he told his mom he was too tired to be naughty anymore because it required so much walking.