Your Take On Fairy Tales For Preschoolers

[Play Care]

I don't believe Ring Around The Rosie is about the plague:

http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp

I'm not bothered either way. If you tell them and can pull some moral or useful tidbit then go for it. If it bothers you then don't.

[Starburst]

A lot of it also has to do with culture and history. And yes, I think kids should hear some stories about how the real world (and life in genral) isn't perfect or always fair. I think it is unfair to make them always expect that everything will magically work out without any rational reasoning or hardwork on the part of the main characters. They need a good mixture of fiction and nonfiction. To compare war stories to fairy-tales is a major hyperbole. I'm sure what most kids today see on TV are 10x scarier than these fairy-tales; heck maybe thats why most of them don't like to read because they don't think it's scary, realistic, or interesting enough because their parents want to shelter them by only letting them read "safe stories" about loosing a tooth or learning to ride a bike. And yet, they assume that just because a show is a cartoon it is age appropriate for all children but since they don't watch it they don't realize it has violence or teaches bad habits- I read a blog about a mom that said she didn't let her 3 year old daughter watch 'Ni Hoa Kai Lan' anymore becuase the characters were always angry and getting attention by throwing temper tantrums and she said noticed after watching the show a few time her daughter was always acting angry and saying "I'm mad" even when she wasn't.

Anyway, it doesn't matter what the origin of the story was or the original point of the story was; it all depends on how it is told to it's audience (that's my inner drama geek talking) and how it is adapted to be age appropriate. Also I can say the same about 'Dora the Explora' being more for entertainment than for education purposes since she subconscienously teaches some really awful lessons to children (see my thread on 'kids shows'). Most stories can have a moral if you look hard enough, many family tv shows are for the main purpose of entertainment but also try to teach lessions in many of the plots (espesually teen/family dramas/comedies like Degrassi or 7th Heaven). That is also why it is important to ask 3-6 year olds open-ended questions after story time to know what they learned and tell the same story every so often to see how their comprehension of stories evolves.
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ETA:

Also just like you can make any story a 'fairy tale' you can also make it dark. Shows I watched when I was a kid have alot of consperacy theories on the internet now:

Ed, Edd, & Eddy All the kids that live in the cul-de-sac are dead. They are stuck in limbo and they still believe that they are alive. It is believed that they all died during different time periods ranging from the early 1900s-2000s. The only characters that are believed to be alive are the Kanker sister- it's thought that they may be witches who awaken the spirits of the other cul-de-sac kids and changed them from residual spirits into more interactive (or intelligent) spirits. That is why all the other kids in the cul-de-sac hate the Kankers- because they put a spell on the dead kids and wont let them cross over. That is why all the other characters have blue tongues and you never see adults or cars on their street. Also why they rarely went to school but even then you never saw a teacher or other students (abandaned school yard?)

Rugrats Angelica, Suzy, and possibly Dill are the only real rugrats. All the other ones are thought to be figments of Angelica's imagination. Angelica was supposively born addicted to drugs and her real mother OD'ed and died shortly after her birth. Angelica got over the withdrawls but the drugs left her paranoid and borderline schitzophrenic. Her father remarried a woman (Charlotte) who is too busy to see Angelica needs help and her father (Drew) didn't pay much attention to Angelica. Angelica's doll Cynthia is really a symbol for her dead birth mother- that is why she always idolized Cynthia and why her doll has really messed up hair. Tommy was a stillborn- that's why his dad was always in the basement making toys for his child that never got a chance to play. Chucky died with his mother in a car accident and that is why chaz is always a wreck he later married a woman Kira who always talked about her daughter Kimi who died of SIDS. Betty DeVille is believed to be a pro-choice feminist (explaining the symbol on her shirt) and was pregnant but terminated it; Angelica didn't know if it was a boy or a girl so she made them one of each twins. This is all why Angelica could talk to both the babies and adults- the adults thought she had imaginary friends she called the 'babies' so that is why they patronized her and pretended they existed and why she always got in trouble and blamed for things even when it was something the babies did. Suzy was Angelica's only real friend and she also played along and pretened to talk to the 'imaginary' babies she lets this go on until they are in their teens. Dil was eventually born but Angelica got mad that he wouldn't talk to her like the other babies did so she got mad and shook him which caused severe brain damage but he did survive which is why he is weird in 'All Grown Up'. Also Dr. Lipschitz, the child specialist that Didi always researches, is the name of the Pickles' and the Finsters' family pyschologist.

So yes even harmless kids stories and shows can be made into darker meanings then intended if you really try hard enough.

[Jewels]

I don't think a kids mind understands the stories like we do, they don't see the "horror" part, because they can't understand it, they hear it very differently, I mean I never knew ring around the rosey meant what it meant until I was an adult, to me it was just a game where you spin around a rose plant and fall down, kids minds just don't comprehend like ours, just like today, one of my 6 yr olds, asked me why sexy is a bad word.....I said its not really bad just innapropriate kind of like poop, and she said yeah but why, honestly I changed the subject because I couldn't really answer that, shes to young to know what sex is, and its not a bad word, so I didn't really know how to answer that.

[bunnyslippers]

I am actually not sure how I feel about this. I know that fairy tales have a strong presence in literature, and that it is important to have that reference point for further literary education. That being said, I have a very smart 5 year old son, and he gets very freaked out by some of the stories! It is hard to sugar coat a lot of them...and the concept is pretty frightening. Just last night, he asked me what Hansel and Gretel was all about. You should have seen his little face as I explained it! He was horrified! I haven't even let him watch many of the Disney movies, as he gets scared of some of those. Hmmm, maybe he is a little too sensitive.

[Evansmom]

I'm not sure it's a fear of children growing up to be serial killers or an issue about stressing out about the issue, for me it's just a matter of knowing the actual origins and having a respect for any actual history that they originated from.)

I don't see the harm with doing both, reading the "kids" version to kids and then in high school learning where they originally come from. I did this and it made learning about it as a young adult so much more fascinating to have read the children's versions and have them to compare the originals to. Otherwise where is the reference? As a young adult learning the darker stories behind the kids versions was so juicy and interesting.

[just_peachy]

Not that I feel too strongly one way or another, but if we're going to attack the historical aspect of fairy tales, our kids shouldn't be celebrating any holidays either. Especially the fluffy gradeschool way.

No Thanksgiving: hostile Native American takeover

No Columbus Day: more Native American injustices

No Easter: Crucifiction, wee!

No Independence Day: war

The list goes on. Just something to consider.

[Willow]

I don't see the harm with doing both, reading the "kids" version to kids and then in high school learning where they originally come from. I did this and it made learning about it as a young adult so much more fascinating to have read the children's versions and have them to compare the originals to. Otherwise where is the reference? As a young adult learning the darker stories behind the kids versions was so juicy and interesting.

Just to clarify I agree that as a young adult learning about the darker ACTUAL origins was interesting , and I see nothing wrong with that.

My problem is from an ethical standpoint, especially in regards to those stories, rhymes, sing-songs that have legitimate roots. Even those that don't, I just don't see the need.


Sure we all need to learn lessons in life, but do I need to distort violent and perverted existing fiction and non to do so? I don't happen to think so. I don't feel like I need to make up a story about actual school shootings to teach the toddlers in my care not to bully, or touch firearms, or think it's appropriate to pull life lessons from 50 Shades of Gray to share with pre-k's

Sure we all COULD. But what's being debated here per the original post is the importance. Is it ethical and is it necessary to a child's upbringing. I'd argue HECK NO.



To further clarify, I'm not saying imaginative story telling isn't valuable because I do think it is.....just that the origins of some of what people try to pass off as youth appropriate literature is nothing but. From an ethical standpoint, it doesn't sit right with me to try to pass it off as such.

[just_peachy]

or think it's appropriate to pull life lessons from 50 Shades of Gray to share with pre-k's

:: Okay now THAT I'd like to see.

[Willow]

Not that I feel too strongly one way or another, but if we're going to attack the historical aspect of fairy tales, our kids shouldn't be celebrating any holidays either. Especially the fluffy gradeschool way.

No Thanksgiving: hostile Native American takeover

No Columbus Day: more Native American injustices

No Easter: Crucifiction, wee!

No Independence Day: war

The list goes on. Just something to consider.

When I was growing up Thanksgiving and Columbus Day were fluffed up in school, but my parents raised me to know the truth. We acknowledged it and used it as a time to spend with family. I do the same with my children. I don't know of anyone right now who is like - wow, Thanksgiving is awesome, I'm so glad the Indians got jacked and we should totally pretend like that didn't happen today while we stuff our faces with food.

Although there were colored eggs and Easter baskets we celebrated Christ's rising from the dead on Easter morning, not his death. The crucifixion is not the point of the Christian Holiday or the celebration. I am non practicing but recognize why my parents celebrate the day with joy. It's a very VERY joyous occasion, just as his birth was. Christ's ascension into heaven is only second to His birth (if not visa versa). Both events were essential to souls everywhere being able to someday achieve everlasting life. Being given the opportunity to spend eternity in heaven is cause for a lot of people to rejoice.

Independence Day was always a day to recognize veterans around here. While war is unpleasant it is reality and our life is better for what this country endured to achieve it's current freedom. My kids know we don't put flags out and go to the fireworks with "Proud to Be An American" playing as they burst for no reason.

[Willow]

:: Okay now THAT I'd like to see.

Hurting others predisposes them to perpetuate that violence?

I'm not sure how it's that big of a stretch if you can pull goodness and life lessons out of stories steeped in death, torture, rape, cannibalism, infanticide, necrophilia, bestiality and cruel and unusual punishment.

[Willow]

Most stories can have a moral if you look hard enough

Which is why attempting to extract morals from the really really dark stuff is completely unnecessary

[Lucy]

Whether or not Ring Around the Rosey is about the plague shouldn't matter. The kids don't know that, nor would they understand if they were told! It wouldn't frighten them enough to stop singing it. I think we're WAY over-analyzing this on an ADULT level. Kids don't think of ANY of that stuff. They're just singing rhyming words with a catchy tune. Period.

For heaven's sake... we teach kids that an old man watches them while they play and sleep, and then he sneaks into our house in the middle of the night. And there are dozens, if not hundreds, of songs about this guy. Why is that not frightening to teach??? Just sayin'

[Starburst]

Which is why attempting to extract morals from the really really dark stuff is completely unnecessary

That doesn't mean that the stories are bad or that you shouldn't read them. I also added consperacy theories of shows that weren't made with bad intentions but were turned into darker meanings by fans on my previous post.

[Willow]

Whether or not Ring Around the Rosey is about the plague shouldn't matter. The kids don't know that, nor would they understand if they were told! It wouldn't frighten them enough to stop singing it. I think we're WAY over-analyzing this on an ADULT level. Kids don't think of ANY of that stuff. They're just singing rhyming words with a catchy tune. Period.

For heaven's sake... we teach kids that an old man watches them while they play and sleep, and then he sneaks into our house in the middle of the night. And there are dozens, if not hundreds, of songs about this guy. Why is that not frightening to teach??? Just sayin'

It's not about whether it's frightening to teach (although the thought of Santa Clause seeing me when I peed in the weeks leading up to Christmas was more than a little disturbing.......).

If the original story of Santa Clause was one not of him bringing presents to good children but instead massacring bad children all over the world with a machete and then feeding their heads to the sharks would it REALLY be necessary to pull the life lesson of "behave" from that?? If he didn't wear a red fluffy suit but rather a leather and chains get up with scary goblins pulling a sleigh....would you really feel the need to distort that version into a more palatable story to teach that life lesson? Or could you come up with something better?

PLEASE tell me you could come up with something better on your own ::

[Jewels]

Whether or not Ring Around the Rosey is about the plague shouldn't matter. The kids don't know that, nor would they understand if they were told! It wouldn't frighten them enough to stop singing it. I think we're WAY over-analyzing this on an ADULT level. Kids don't think of ANY of that stuff. They're just singing rhyming words with a catchy tune. Period.

For heaven's sake... we teach kids that an old man watches them while they play and sleep, and then he sneaks into our house in the middle of the night. And there are dozens, if not hundreds, of songs about this guy. Why is that not frightening to teach??? Just sayin'

Yeah right, after christmas my 3 year old at bedtime everynight asked if santa was watching her and she was scared