Universal Childcare?

[jokalima]

A few years ago, my DH and I decided to adopt a family and do something nice for the holidays for them. We decided we were going to give them all the trimming for a holiday meal and a few spending dollars for gas or gifts for their children.

My DH and I started out dirt poor doing everything ourselves without the help of anyone other than our own need to survive. We wanted to pay our good fortune forward.

When push came to shove and we were ready to start buying stuff for our "care package" we were startled to realize that we couldn't really find a truly needy family. :confused:

Oh, don't get me wrong, we knew lots of families that struggled and were maybe on assistance or really had a hard time paying their bills but when we really looked at them we realized all of them smoked, had newer cars, went to the casino's, dressed in name brand clothing, had cell phones and tattoos etc etc

So in all honesty, we really couldn't find a truly needy family.

I KNOW there are families out there who are struggling and really really do need the help.....but I didn't have any idea where to find them.

This reminds me of a Christmas gift donation that the DC where I used to work gives to one family in need. Well, when they told me what family it was I decided not to give one penny, all of my co-workers gave me the bad eye but I did not care, the Head teacher obviously did not know what she was doing. Mom one a single mom of 2, she worked full time and had a brand new Honda mini van, I was driving an older car... So I was supposed to give to someone that can afford better/newer things that what I can? Sounds selfish? Could be, but I just think is not right.

Same thing with the family of previous year, Mom always cried how poor she was, she could not buy diapers, wipes, but she always had perfumes, nice shoes and wigs, and always a DD coffee in her hand, but NO wipes, no money for wipes. When they asked for the money to give to her I said no, I went to the store and bought the boy lots of clothes and gave them to him, I did it this way because I knew that if we gave the money to mom she would have spend it on herself.

[My3cents]

I was definitely poverty level when I was going through my divorce.

We qualified for every single program under the sun but you know what? That didn't mean we *NEEDED* them.

Ability to qualify does not equate to NEED.

The only program I utilized was school lunch assistance. Although my kids qualified for free lunch I insisted on at least paying the discounted rate. I used it only because my income barely covered the bills my abusive, squandering ex left me buried in and I wanted to make sure there was at least food in my kids bellies. I had paid in via taxes for the previous dozen years or so felt that was fair.

Once I got back on my feet I immediately started paying the full rate again even though I could have taken advantage for the whole rest of the year.


Taking a whole lot more may have made my life easier but it wouldn't have been right. I could have taken cash assistance and kept our satellite tv. I could have taken food stamps and used what little grocery money I had to go to McDonalds instead of eating Ramen 2-3 nights a week. I learned to shop for everything else at thrift stores. To do otherwise would have been wrong. Sacrifices may be uncomfortable, but that's life. You do the best you can and if that means having less sometimes so be it. If you NEED the help that's one thing, but it's another entirely to take advantage when you don't in the true sense of the word.

Be glad you at least have your husband to pool your resources. I had no one but myself to fund my family of 3 and I did it just fine on my own (by my accounts anyway).

Most people on welfare and help don't have your mentality.

We had a stretch that was very tight for us and didn't qualify for anything. We made dollars too much to even get help with reduced lunch. Both of us working, scraping for hours at the time and high bills not because of foolish spending but just trying to get by. Starting off and the year that everything could go wrong did. We didn't qualify. This was years ago. Now it is just handed out.

I feel limits should be set on it and rations given out instead of $ and a debit card to buy what you want. Those that are truly in need will take what is given, those that are dependent and making it a way of life will B**** I say let them B**** enough to want to get off the hiney and do something with themselves. Most of these people need something to do, they would be a better asset to the community if they had purpose. Start getting the doctors to hand out vitamins instead of all these synthetic wonder drugs to just anyone that says they are depressed. (don't get me wrong, these drugs are for people who truly need them) I just don't believe that as many people that are on them now truly need them. We need coping skills and purpose and vitamins -

ok jumping off..... not trying to offend anyone. I live in a community that welfare is a way of life for many and see to much of what I don't want to see and can't change. I agree with you and I think we should get back to the mind set of need, true needs.

[jokalima]

okay...this digressed into a discussion about welfare. I'd like to steer it back to the original topic because I thought I felt passionately as many of you do. I DO fear that things are being "pushed down" earlier and earlier.

However, the fact that it would "take away business" from us, admittedly, does affect my feelings.

Many of us are interested in Reggio Emelia. It is world-known as an EXCELLENT program. It is also a "state run" early childhood program.

Here is an article I found about education in the world, and how the US fares:

http://www.oecd.org/education/CN%20-%20United%20States.pdf

I have very mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, many other countries have "kindergarten " (the original Kindergarten is preschool, not kindergarten in the 5 year old sense). On the other hand, our schools already do such a crappy job, for the most part, that I don't trust them with the job.

IF something like this was done, then it should be part of a complete overhaul of our education system. More educated, higher paid teachers who are the cream-of-the-crop (like Finland's system, where only 20% of those who apply to teachers schools even get in, and it's a master's program). Creative, talented people who WANT to teach...not just have 9 month out of the year jobs. We have some of those creative, talented people now, but unfortunately, they are rarely respected by their peers or their school boards. Our 4K teacher here worked for her Masters, and then almost got herself fired because now...she costs too much.

This really isn't about Obama or politics. It's about the US staying a major player in the world. We absolutely need to improve education in this country. We need less drop-outs, more engaged students, and more higher education.

Our grandfathers didn't need 4-K...of course not! They were living in a different world. They did "just fine" because they worked their butts off in that world. As much as I like to get all nostalgic about it, longing for the days when "life was simpler", it's just not. Maybe someday, there'll be some sort of fall-of-society, and people will be hunters and gatherers again. For now, though, we are in an electronic age, and our children need to live in that world.

So...still not sure what that means for Universal Kindergarten...

Here is another article I found about Finland, which is world-known for it's educational excellence:

http://www.newamerica.net/blog/early...-children-9029

I am not familiar with Reggio Emilia, what is it?

[My3cents]

I support Obama, and my personal and business taxes have gone down during his administration. My property values have gone up. My unemployed nephew has gotten a good job. I am looking forward to pursuing health insurance soon. So no complaints here about our President. I too did want to hear more about immigration, unemployment and bringing manufacturing back to the US.

Now.....on to the topic at hand:

I happily accept state subsidized childcare vouchers, and my state allows (encourages us, actually) to charge subsidy parents the difference between my published rate and their rate. In other words, accepting subsidy does not hurt my bottom line, and actually brings me joy to know I am helping someone by accepting it. My place is quite pricey, most
(if not all) of other pricey places refuse subsidy.

I do not like the current free preschool for 4 year olds, and I do not support it for 3 yeaoldsYes, it hurts my business. However, if I can figure out a way to participate without it meaning a pay-cut, I WILL! When the market changes, I feel it is my.duty to adapt, or be left behind. I don't count on any politician to make the right decisions. I count on myself. I don't want to be the Blackberry of the child care industry, I want to be the Iphone.

I don't think this happen on a federal level. It might on a state level. But I doubt it. So until it does, I am not going to get my panties in a wad over it, I got bigger things to worry about.

you are lucky here- My state will not let you charge parents more then what the state will pay for daycare- How is that fair to me? I am a business and I have a contract but if I want to accept state children I have to go by the states contract. No- Everything I have to go through to be licensed and run and I am going to be bossed into someone else running my business. No and that stinks because I do like to help others.

[Play Care]

I am a Canadian (hence the name) but I have worked on committees trying to get universal care here in some form for years. They have it the next province over and how it runs is that there are a set amount of spots at 7$ a day. The government subsidises the remainder. If you choose and are so fortunate as to get one of those spots then, there it is. If you go another route and pay privately that is your choice, too. You will get a receipt for your amount and carry on as usual.

I am a bleeding heart lefty, though so I support all this free education, free medical etc. I don't mind paying taxes that go to helping others and would rather see that than see the money going to buying weapons.

I am green with envy over Canada's mat/family leave.

[My3cents]

My whole take on the "programs" thing is that there is no longer any incentive to do better. Raise the minimum wage because people on it cant survive? Then strive for a better job than minimum wage. If you qualify for financial aid, go to school to get the better job. If people dont have to work hard to survive, some wont and if brought up that way, more and more generations will become people with no incentive. To be honest, government control scares me! I think I am intelligent enough to figure things out on my own. Yea, universal healthcare sounds great until its between your mother and a young person who needs care and there isnt enough for both. guess whos dying?

I know of someone that spent all the financial aid that was handed to them on whatever with no intent to go to school and no intent to pay it back. Because this person knew the President is going to "forgive" college loans.

This person is making a career off the Government! Third generation of this way of life---

The incentive is there, it is there to see what more I can get and why can't I??? Poor me syndrome, syndrome of entitlement. I believe many government jobs would not be needed and high paying jobs like Dr.s if an over haul was done to stop this mind set-

[Heidi]

I am not familiar with Reggio Emilia, what is it?

Here is a good site to get more info...

http://www.reggiokids.com/about/about_approach.php

[Willow]

This really isn't about Obama or politics. It's about the US staying a major player in the world. We absolutely need to improve education in this country. We need less drop-outs, more engaged students, and more higher education.

Ahhh....but is doing the exact same thing we're doing now - funneling kids into massive institutionalized learning centers (public schools) - sending them younger and younger really improve those statistics?


The reason why this is about Obama and politics is it's pretty typical for the left to demand change via charging the taxpayers up the wazoo for new this and new that. Why not FIX what's currently broken before adding more to the pile? Sort out the why behind the drop outs, the disengaged students and the zero motivation for higher education. Solve THAT first. And then start making the argument that more and more younger kids should join that arena if you think it'll actually help them.

Throwing young children into a system that most people would agree is ridiculously broken will never improve the state of the education in this country.

(you ='s general you - not you specifically Heidi )

[Willow]

I am green with envy over Canada's mat/family leave.

If the United States would ever actually prioritize it's spending I don't think we'd have any trouble offering that to the working class.

[Blackcat31]

This really isn't about Obama or politics. It's about the US staying a major player in the world. We absolutely need to improve education in this country. We need less drop-outs, more engaged students, and more higher education.

Ahhh....but is doing the exact same thing we're doing now - funneling kids into massive institutionalized learning centers (public schools) - sending them younger and younger really improve those statistics?


The reason why this is about Obama and politics is it's pretty typical for the left to demand change via charging the taxpayers up the wazoo for new this and new that. Why not FIX what's currently broken before adding more to the pile? Sort out the why behind the drop outs, the disengaged students and the zero motivation for higher education. Solve THAT first. And then start making the argument that more and more younger kids should join that arena if you think it'll actually help them.

Throwing young children into a system that most people would agree is ridiculously broken will never improve the state of the education in this country.

(you ='s general you - not you specifically Heidi )

Plus there is NO proof, no actual proof that preschool benefits anyone other than low income children.

Until I see some actual proof that early childhood education actually gives a child a "head start" in life academically or personally, I won't buy into it.

Providing universal and/or free preschool isn't really going to help anyone but the government.

[Heidi]

Ahhh....but is doing the exact same thing we're doing now - funneling kids into massive institutionalized learning centers (public schools) - sending them younger and younger really improve those statistics?


The reason why this is about Obama and politics is it's pretty typical for the left to demand change via charging the taxpayers up the wazoo for new this and new that. Why not FIX what's currently broken before adding more to the pile? Sort out the why behind the drop outs, the disengaged students and the zero motivation for higher education. Solve THAT first. And then start making the argument that more and more younger kids should join that arena if you think it'll actually help them.

Throwing young children into a system that most people would agree is ridiculously broken will never improve the state of the education in this country.

(you ='s general you - not you specifically Heidi )

I totally agree!

I wasn't trying to say I was for the idea. Not sure how I came across. I am trying to say that the whole thing is pretty messed up, and I might be FOR the idea IF, and only IF, we can get the rest fixed. I think that would require a major overhaul of the education system. Not something I think we'll be seeing anytime soon, because although most people agree that it isn't working, there is huge disagreement about what needs to be done.

My MIL says things like "they need to get back to the basics.."

I say things like "they need to find new and creative ways to engage kids..." I don't believe "basics" are going to prepare our children for the world they are growing up in. My MIL wants the world to be more like it was when she was growing up. So, two very different ways of looking at the problem...

Heck, I want the world to be more like it was when I was growing up, but it's not, and it's not gonna be.... Well...maybe some of it wasn't all roses-and-sunshine anyway, come to think of it...

[jen2651]

Speaking on the headstart aspect, I (my family) qualified for headstart when I was 4. It was a great program then - it was in the school and from 8-3. We had lunch, quiet time etc. Now, from what I know (and could be wrong) it is 2.5 hour sessions (requiring parental transportation - who can work and do that?!) and you also must as a parent meet with someone once in a while (I believe it is every 2 weeks for 1 hour).

I just don't understand how they expect people who are trying to get a leg up to utilize the program. To me, the obvious answer would be to not work?! No different than the ECFE classes in my areas. There is not one class geared towards working people. They are all during the day. Now yes, some people have shift work but in my area it is not prevalent. Oh wait, I correct myself. In a bigger town, there was one evening class - Daddies and Me. Cause you know - like the moms would work?!

[Blackcat31]

Speaking on the headstart aspect, I (my family) qualified for headstart when I was 4. It was a great program then - it was in the school and from 8-3. We had lunch, quiet time etc. Now, from what I know (and could be wrong) it is 2.5 hour sessions (requiring parental transportation - who can work and do that?!) and you also must as a parent meet with someone once in a while (I believe it is every 2 weeks for 1 hour).

I just don't understand how they expect people who are trying to get a leg up to utilize the program. To me, the obvious answer would be to not work?! No different than the ECFE classes in my areas. There is not one class geared towards working people. They are all during the day. Now yes, some people have shift work but in my area it is not prevalent. Oh wait, I correct myself. In a bigger town, there was one evening class - Daddies and Me. Cause you know - like the moms would work?!

As a former Head Start employee, the point was to teach the parents/families to learn to work and be self-sufficient, it was to keep them in the system and make sure they continued to sign up for everything they could.

After all, if they became self sufficient and no longer needed any type of assistance, there would be a lot of people down at human services out of work.

I made over $13 per hour working at Head Start. STARTING pay with NO education and over 20+ years ago.

Something just not right about that. I have lots of other behind the scenes stories so.... I agree. Head Start is not what it was intended to be.

[allsmiles]

i dont really have a opinion about universal daycare YET..
but as far as the arguement that ppl are misusing the programs that put in place to help those that need it.. i really dont see how that makes the program ineffective?? thats just human nature unfortunately.. I worked for Social Security and Medicaid for YEARS and I got sick of hearing that song.. YES there are alot of ppl that misuse the federal TAX dollars and there are still alot of ppl that use and need them?? there are MILLIONS of dollars used to stop fraud and misuse but its never gonna clean the problem up totally.. still doesnt mean that the programs arent needed at all..

as far as getting ready for kindergarten and the NEED to do so.. im surprised none of you have had any child go thru kindergarten in the last couple of years?? i have and kindergarten is not what it was when our parents or even WE went through it. You do have a lot more skills that are expected of you. My children both attended pre k 3, not based on income.. and they had spelling tests and reading comprehension by 2nd semester? wht if your child was the one that didnt have that preparation and entered kinder? would they make it? OF COURSE.. would it be great for all kids to have the same opportunities to meet the expectations ..I THINK SO??
or forget about that.. what about just the few ppl that need daycare just for DAYCARE.. state funded programs have been cut back so much.. no daycares are trying to do care on sliding scales, heck they have to make a profit as well.. its crazy out there.. im glad im not in that boat of needing it, but something needs to be done.. and im glad im not the person that has to think of how to help because NO ONE can make everybody happy.. glad i only have to please 4 and not 4 billion.. okay done LMBO!!!!!!happyfacehappyface

[Kaddidle Care]

Here's my take on it. I think the programs shoud be offered for a short period of time or under certain circumstances. A few years ago my husband was laid off from a very high paying job. At the time I was not working because I didn't have to. We were left with no income. We went to a local christian charity for food, and they offered financial counseling. At our first meeting we discussed what our financial problems were, and made a plan. The plan included ways we could improve our finances, and where we were going to be financially in 3months when the charity would no longer be assisting us. My husband's goals were obviously to find another high paying job, and my goals were to find a well paying part time job and reasonable childcare accomidations. They checked in with us each month to see what we were doing to obtain those goals, and where we were on our journey. At the end of the 3 months they stopped helping us with our bills and food and we were financially independent again. In a Nutshell. We have provided for ourselves very well ever since. It only took 3 months of help. I will forever have a respect for christian charities and would gladly volunteer my time to pay it foward. Everytime I go to the grocery store I buy a bag of charity groceries because I am able to give back. If we are going to have government programs such as foodstamps etc. they should be set up similarly to this charity. What have you done this month to become more financialy independent? What have you done to make sure that you and your children won't starve at the end of these 3 months?
I've never had foodstamps, only this 3 month period of assistance. I am proud of you all for working as hard as you have. I also understand that there are times when people accept help with the intent of working their butts off and paying it foward to someone else.

I applaud you! I don't think many could turn their lives around in 3 short months but you've proven it's possible.

Where I now work we have a small food bank and the people that give the most are the people that have been in your shoes. One thing you might consider instead of lugging all of that food to your food bank every week is to purchase one or two $10.00 grocery gift cards. We keep them on hand as it's just enough to buy milk, eggs, bread or some meat - things we can't store.

I can usually get a vibe from people and I've yet to detect anyone that wasn't clearly in need. If they are taking advantage, they'll have to settle it with the big man upstairs.

Sorry - I've gotten off track here.