Failing As A Mother..How To Stop Kids Madness At Stores?

[Solandia]

The same theories and methods can apply to any child you have with you regardless of how many you're trying to manage at one time.

Your example doesn't touch on 2 hellions egging each other on. I have taken 7 kids out and about without problems frequently...very, very rarely are there TWO in the same stage of zero impulse control, yet difficult to manage physically (the 2.5-3.5yo age range). Usually one is having a good day, or the other is (when I have two that same age).

Seriously, even with 6/7 kids, if only ONE is 2/3yo and difficult...it is relatively easy to manage. Unless you have two 3yo, in midst of defiance...your example in the store would equal...one barely turned 3yo running out the front door & while the other is dragging the cart off the other direction or trying to put 8 loaves of bread in the freezer.

Or, if they are both on a mean streak....while gettting in the car, one will be literally dragging on the ground while I am buckling the other in....*if* he is being cooperative. THAT is why the stroller has to be a backup plan, to have them both secured as needed. It is a safety issue...when they are in a "mood", i cannot risk one of them getting hit by a car or running out of the store as a lesson..there is no ignoring that behavior. Even with just the two of them, they are more of a hassle than 7. There is NO learning to behave with them both...they are uncontrollable in tandem, and really only listen to each other. Even praising while doing well, it doesn't last through an entire trip. Individually, yes. Together...haven't seen it yet.

[Willow]

Solandia - I have no idea what about what I've said that you're disagreeing with?

My entire point is that in regards to operant conditioning extinction is a great way of teaching children what is and isn't acceptable behavior wise. Leaving immediately isn't the only way to mange or "punish" in the case of a child acting up out in public.

Is there something about that assertion that you disagree with?

I didn't say anything in regards to safety or strollers :confused:


If you're trying to say that managing two ill behaved children is harder than seven well behaved children I don't disagree with you there. But as a parent I wouldn't let that level of difficulty prevent me from taking those two out and about. I would actually be hard set on making sure I took them out more as they obviously believe at that point that working together to make my life miserable will get them out of behaving decently out in public. Na-ah. No flipping way. I'd crush the crap out of that notion with an iron fist right quick. They'd be near living at the mall so they got more than their fair share of practice at getting better .

[Blackcat31]

Ignoring a behavior will lead to the extinction of it. That's a trademark of behavior modification theory. And usually the effect is swift and complete because people/children (like all mammals) only do what works for them. If screaming caused candy to drop from the sky then I'd buy that throwing a hissy fit is much more fun than sitting still. But otherwise it's merely the sign of an unhappy child, not one content to continue doing what they're doing because it brings them some amount of pleasure.

By showing the child yelling in the store that that behavior has no power, WILL lead to the extinction of it.

If my kids ever did anything like that I'd probably laugh and alert them to the fact that no one around them cares that they're being ridiculous. Carry on. And louder please if you wish. Next trip we make if you make better choices we can talk about swinging by the park afterward. Pity we couldn't do that today because you're being so silly and you obviously need a nap, it's so sunny outside!

.....So then after I work a 10-11 hour work day taking care of kids, I now have to go to the grocery store and listen to some other persons child scream? ...and then listen to them scream louder because the mother doesn't mind or wants to teach them a lesson?! :confused:

That isn't really fair to me. I do NOT want to shop while kids are tantruming in every aisle. I do NOT want to hear a screaming child while I am not at work.....I pay the same prices as other customers and spend just as much so I have just as much right to expect a peaceful shopping trip as the next person.

I shouldn't have to give up my peace of mind because someone wants to teach their child a life lesson in public. They can do that at McDonald's or at Toys R Us.

[Willow]

.....So then after I work a 10-11 hour work day taking care of kids, I now have to go to the grocery store and listen to some other persons child scream? ...and then listen to them scream louder because the mother doesn't mind or wants to teach them a lesson?! :confused:

That isn't really fair to me. I do NOT want to shop while kids are tantruming in every aisle. I do NOT want to hear a screaming child while I am not at work.....I pay the same prices as other customers and spend just as much so I have just as much right to expect a peaceful shopping trip as the next person.

I shouldn't have to give up my peace of mind because someone wants to teach their child a life lesson in public. They can do that at McDonald's or at Toys R Us.

If you are proactive in handling it, it's not something that should or will happen trip after trip after trip though.

The families that would ruin your trips are the ones who haven't adequately exposed their children to those situations, who's children haven't had the opportunity to learn how to manage their behaviors.


You can't learn what you never experience. Correct or not? We were all little and had to learn somehow at some point in our lives. Guaranteed we were annoying at some point. That's life. Not sure about you but I have more trouble with what I see as far as obnoxious adult behavior goes than I ever see out of kids. That's troubling to me.

Children don't generalize well. It's exactly why they can be on their best behavior in one place and act like complete crazies in others. What you teach your child in your own home won't necessarily apply in their minds to the playground, in church, at the grocery store or at a family reunion. When they're young you have to be active in exposing them to all different environments to teach them regardless of the place certain behaviors across the board are acceptable and others aren't.

If someone disagrees with that that's fine, but it's not merely my opinion. It's behavior basics 101. B.F. Skinner at the core.


I'd rather my child act up once and learn right then and there what that will get them as opposed to simply removing them and having them "annoy" the general public over and over and over and over again into infinity because they learn that their behavior nets them power over the outing.

I scream - mom takes me home.

The next time that child was out what would stop them from repeating that behavior when it got them exactly what they wanted the last time?

And why wouldn't they then start to apply the same principle to being dropped off at daycare? Going to the doctors office? Running to the bank? Etc. Etc. Etc....

[Blackcat31]

If you are proactive in handling it, it's not something that should or will happen trip after trip after trip though.

The families that would ruin your trips are the ones who haven't adequately exposed their children to those situations, who's children haven't had the opportunity to learn how to manage their behaviors.


You can't learn what you never experience. Correct or not? We were all little and had to learn somehow at some point in our lives. Guaranteed we were annoying at some point. That's life. Not sure about you but I have more trouble with what I see as far as obnoxious adult behavior goes than I ever see out of kids. That's troubling to me.

Children don't generalize well. It's exactly why they can be on their best behavior in one place and act like complete crazies in others. What you teach your child in your own home won't necessarily apply in their minds to the playground, in church, at the grocery store or at a family reunion. When they're young you have to be active in exposing them to all different environments to teach them regardless of the place certain behaviors across the board are acceptable and others aren't.

If someone disagrees with that that's fine, but it's not merely my opinion. It's behavior basics 101. B.F. Skinner at the core.


I'd rather my child act up once and learn right then and there what that will get them as opposed to simply removing them and having them "annoy" the general public over and over and over and over again into infinity because they learn that their behavior nets them power over the outing.

I scream - mom takes me home.

The next time that child was out what would stop them from repeating that behavior when it got them exactly what they wanted the last time?

And why wouldn't they then start to apply the same principle to being dropped off at daycare? Going to the doctors office? Running to the bank? Etc. Etc. Etc....

::::.....I actually agree with you...

You were just so busy typing in this thread to get your point across that I had to make you type some more

I tell ALL my dacyare parents if they ask me about this that people in the store who have children themselves FULLy understand and those that don't will never get it so don't get flustered when your kid is screaming.

Public is just like private.....they don't get to break the rules just because they are loud.

[Willow]

::::.....I actually agree with you...

You were just so busy typing in this thread to get your point across that I had to make you type some more

I tell ALL my dacyare parents if they ask me about this that people in the store who have children themselves FULLy understand and those that don't will never get it so don't get flustered when your kid is screaming.

Public is just like private.....they don't get to break the rules just because they are loud.

And I agree with you, the last thing I want to have to listen to at the end of the day is a screeching kid . I don't blame anyone who is understanding but still cringing at the same time.

I think this whole topic just hit me hard because of a trip we took to Walmart yesterday. Several times we ran into a mother who was trying to manage a particularly crabby toddler and I truly felt for her, it looked like she was handling him well and he was just giving her everything he had. Then we heard hollaring a few aisles down. We eventually ran into a different woman and her four children, was surprised to learn SHE was the one acting bat crap crazy....screaming back and forth at the woman who was with her and SINGING. Not like humming to herself but busting out rap tunes with some pretty abhorrent rap lyrics much to the disgust of everyone around her. All I could think of was where was that womans mother when she should have been hunkering down on her daughters behavior 30 years ago just like the mother of the toddler was doing?? The womans children were acting far more appropriately than even she was!

[snips&snails]

I think to some extent it depends on the child - as a single parent, I HAVE to bring my child to the store with me. He is generally well behaved but for him, leaving the store is a very successful consequence because he loves shopping! However that is rarely an option for me, so usually when he does act out I simply ignore him, which hs also been very effective. These days any squabbles at all are few and far between.

Twins really are a different story though. How about getting kid "leashes" - you can get really cute ones to avoid dirty looks from other shoppers My son had one for outings & he loved it. Then you don't have the hazard of them climbing out of the cart, but they also can't run freely over the store.

If possible I would take only one at a time, and alternate, until their shopping manners improved. This also is a great chance to give each child some positive, one-on-one attention which is often lacking for twins

[LoraJenkins]

When my children were small (they are all adults now), if they misbehaved in a store...out we would go. Period. And they would not be allowed out shopping with me again in that store for a while. If they behaved, I would allow them to pick 1 small item before we left or they would get something special when we returned home...positive reinforcement. We did have to leave a few times with my oldest daughter. Only once with my youngest. Hope this helps.

[rmc20021]

You definitely have to set the boundaries and follow through with what you say...every single time.
In the past I have talked to the kids before I left home and again in the car once we got to the location to make sure they understood what I expected from them. 3 yo's are capable of understanding what you mean, but may 'forget' once they are in the store.That's when you have to show them you meant what you said.
I've left carts of groceries in the stores, I've left uneaten meals in the restaurants and once, we were at Sea World in Florida when we left because my kids kept whining. Fortunately we had a free day for the next day so I didn't feel as though we HAD to stay because it had cost so much. Needless to say, the kids behaved beautifully the next day. I rememberr at one point my then 3 yo daughter started to act up, looked up at me as though to 'remember' what had happened the day before and thought better of it immediately.
I don't mess around and the kids know it...whether it was my own kids, grandkids, foster kids or daycare kids.
Consistency is the key. If they KNOW what you expect, they WILL behave. It will take a little work but it is so worth it when you can take your kids into the store and KNOW they will behave. It only takes a couple times for them to get it.

[canadiancare]

I don't know your personal circumstances but when mine were little my husband took them into the car with him, put them in their seat and proceeded to read the paper- no talking to them or anything for as long as I took.

I'd finish my shopping and we'd go home. End of outing.


When the kids managed we'd finish our shopping and go play at the token arcade or go for doughnuts or something special.

I am also the parent who used "look with your eyes" as my cue and my kids would walk around the store and not touch anything.

I have 5 daycare kids that I can take into any store and get errands done (even home depot) because they know that if they aren't managing I am perfectly willing to turn around and go home. I use a 6 seater stroller so our errands are all done as part of a walk. If we get what we need to do done, then we do something special.

They get tons of reinforcement for making me proud and managing so well. As they get older they begin to comment "that boy isn't managing, is he?" when other kids aren't behaving.

[3amazingkiddos]

As a mom to identical 3 year old boys, I know how tough it can be. For the most part my boys are fairly well behaved in the store, but we all have bad days. On those days they get 1 warning, if the behavior continues, we leave and they loose a privilege for the day. If I have to get the shopping done right then, I get my stroller out of the car and I push that and pull the cart. They hate the stroller b/c it's for babies, their words, that alone is usually enough for them to straighten up. Mine love to go shopping, so before we even enter the store we go over the rules, we grab our list, and they help grab the items off the shelf and put it in the cart. This really helps keep them occupied and they love feeling like they're helping My hubby and I also take turns taking them out on errands, they love the one on one time!

[Heidi]

.....So then after I work a 10-11 hour work day taking care of kids, I now have to go to the grocery store and listen to some other persons child scream? ...and then listen to them scream louder because the mother doesn't mind or wants to teach them a lesson?! :confused:

That isn't really fair to me. I do NOT want to shop while kids are tantruming in every aisle. I do NOT want to hear a screaming child while I am not at work.....I pay the same prices as other customers and spend just as much so I have just as much right to expect a peaceful shopping trip as the next person.

I shouldn't have to give up my peace of mind because someone wants to teach their child a life lesson in public. They can do that at McDonald's or at Toys R Us.

You reminded me BC-I've never heard so many crying children as in a Toys R Us or at Disney. The "happiest" places on earth are usually the biggest tantrum inducing places on earth. Maybe it's just the ratio of children, but just stand in the middle of a toy store for 15 minutes and listen...::

Edited to add: You know, it just occurred to me that taking a young teen there might be the best birth control in the world..

[countrymom]

I have 4 kids all 2 years apart, I have always done the shopping or eating out by myself with 4 kids. Yes there have been days I want to rip my hair out, but I do it.

1.you are the parent, not thier friend

2.respect, you need to have respect for the other people. I don't want to listen to your child screaming and yelling and tearing up the aisles because they don't want to behave

3.consequences!!!! you do the crime you do the time. trust me, usually it only takes a couple of times to leave a store before they know that you are serious

4.ground rules. If they are old enough, you need to give them a guidline of what you expect of them when you go into a store, keep it simple. My kids are older now and they still get the same lecture.

5.take your kids out, I really believe that this is the only way they are going to learn, but the minute they act up you need to follow it by a consequence.

6.talk to your kids in the store, I ask my kids still to get things, to compare prices, what do they think of this food, they hold my coupons (we do more measurement and price comparison now but mine are older) I hold conversations with them in the store (heck I even talk to myself in store !)

7.timing is everything. don't go at nap time and when your kids are hungry or tired. I find going in the morning the best with kids.

[countrymom]

You reminded me BC-I've never heard so many crying children as in a Toys R Us or at Disney. The "happiest" places on earth are usually the biggest tantrum inducing places on earth. Maybe it's just the ratio of children, but just stand in the middle of a toy store for 15 minutes and listen...::

Edited to add: You know, it just occurred to me that taking a young teen there might be the best birth control in the world..

I thought it was having a home daycare and being around whiney kids all the time was the answer::

[canadiancare]

and never do the "OK I am leaving you here, then.....bye....I said bye....Mummy's leaving....." unless you mean it