Was Given Details, Now What?

[daycare]

Why does everyone think that the parents would all react violently, angry, and pretty much destroy anything in their path?

I have seen quite a few people in my day that were drinkers and not all were this way. Many you could actually reason with and such.

Your parents all must be a tough crowd-

about 4 years ago, I did have some parents that showed up under the influence to pick up their kids from a parents night out. When they came to the door, their faces were bright red and I said, OMG did you guys have too much fun or what?? They were embarrassed and I said, I follow you home with the kids....

end of story

[sharlan]

I am only arguing the legalities of a situation like this because there are people on this board who are grossly misinformed that a childcare provider could be sued or legally prosecuted for allowing a child to leave with an intoxicated parent. This is false.

I absolutely agree it's morally wrong for a parent to drive intoxicated with their child and intentionally put them in harm's way. It is NOT, however, morally wrong for me to decide to put my own safety and the safety of multiple other daycare children ahead of one daycare child's. It's a difficult decision, yes, but sometimes it's a decision that needs to be made.

I know of far too many addicts with violent tendancies (a few in particular who hate women) to ever encourage a confrontation of this sort. It's not hard to call the police the moment they leave and provide a description of vehical and driver and home address... they will not get far, I assure you.

This is one of those cases where blame is being put in the wrong hands. The parent is at fault, not the daycare provider who is simply following the law and considering the safety of a group as opposed to individual.

For the record, I love my daycare kids too, but I am not willing to risk my life/the lives of others "just in case" an accident were to occur.
If this were a housefire we were talking about, or an armed man broke in I would absolutely do everything in my power (and yes, even risk my life) to save and protect the kids.

Anybody can be sued for anything. Just ask Kimberli, who's being sued for using timeout on an uncontrolled child.

[littlemissmuffet]

Anybody can be sued for anything. Just ask Kimberli, who's being sued for using timeout on an uncontrolled child.

LOL, I know - I meant sued and actually lose.
Where I live, something like this would be thrown out of court so fast your head would spin.

[sharlan]

LOL, I know - I meant sued and actually lose.
Where I live, something like this would be thrown out of court so fast your head would spin.

That's probably because you live in CAnada not CAlifornia.

[daycare]

Anybody can be sued for anything. Just ask Kimberli, who's being sued for using timeout on an uncontrolled child.

I agree....they want to find someone to blame../..

[littlemissmuffet]

That's probably because you live in CAnada not CAlifornia.

Doesn't matter where I live. The fear of being sued is not greater than the fear of myself or other daycare kids) being hurt by a potentially dangerous intoxicated person

Anyways, I just called my local police dept. and a police officer friend in Texas. Both said that all a childcare provider is required to do is report the suspected intoxication to authorities, nothing more - we are not legally responsibile for the child once the parent has taken them. Both police officers said that they would argue in court that the daycare provider was acting in the best interest of the group as a whole as opposed to one individual child. Both agreed that the liklihood of a parent winning a case trying to sue you for responsibility of the child/child's life that the other parent put in danger was nill.

[Country Kids]

Doesn't matter where I live. The fear of being sued is not greater than the fear of myself or other daycare kids) being hurt by a potentially dangerous intoxicated person

Anyways, I just called my local police dept. and a police officer friend in Texas. Both said that all a childcare provider is required to do is report the suspected intoxication to authorities, nothing more - we are not legally responsibile for the child once the parent has taken them. Both police officers said that they would argue in court that the daycare provider was acting in the best interest of the group as a whole as opposed to one individual child. Both agreed that the liklihood of a parent winning a case trying to sue you for responsibility of the child/child's life that the other parent put in danger was nill.

So bottom line....we cannot keep the parent from taking them.

[Blackcat31]

I agree....they want to find someone to blame../..

I don't think it is so much that they want to find someone to blame as it is that everyone tinks they are somehow entitled to ...well everything they want and to always getting their way.

Kimberli isn't being sued by the parents for disciplining the child, Kimberli is being sued because the state licensing dept didn't agree with how she handled the situation so the parent sued because they automatically think that entitles them to their money back or that in some way they were wronged so therefore they should be entitled to something.

[Willow]

Why does everyone think that the parents would all react violently, angry, and pretty much destroy anything in their path?

I have seen quite a few people in my day that were drinkers and not all were this way. Many you could actually reason with and such.

Your parents all must be a tough crowd-

No one is saying all drinkers are violent.

Most (all?) of us here and most people in general indulge occasionally and obviously don't have a problem.

I also don't have any parent I believe would ever be violent in any circumstance, much less show up intoxicated and proceed to get nasty.

That said, we are all human, and I don't socialize with my daycare parents in bars so I have no idea how they'd be. To boot, I am not psychic, and I don't see myself ever willing to bait that bull....


Most people would NEVER have guessed based on day to day behavior that when drunk my ex-husband loved to smash my head into walls and knock me unconscious and definitely found the physical strength to do so despite my desperate flight reflex. He almost killed me several times.


Bottom line is:
YOU. JUST. NEVER. KNOW.

At least not until you're in the middle of it and by then it could be far too late.

[Blackcat31]

Back in 2010 Professionalmom made this comment on the subject:

"Consent - If you have this in your contract (no release to intoxicated person), they have GIVEN consent for you to restrain them in this circumstance. "

I think she has touched on a brilliant way to work around this problem.

I know it wouldn't solve every situation but it is definitely worth adding to a contract/policy and discussing it with parents during the interview.

I would however, NEVER try to argue with a person under the influence but if I felt the parent was somewhat calm and non-violent, I would atleast try to remind them of the policy they agreed and signed.

If anything, even if they get back into their car and leave without their child (I would call 911 immediately)......not ideal to let them drive still but better than letting the child go with them.

[littlemissmuffet]

Another scenerio...

I showed a friend this thread and she made a very good point from a personal experience that a family member experienced that I didn't know about until now.
Her ex tried picking up their child once from the child's DC center while high. The teacher knew DCD and recognized that he was high and told him he should phone mom to come and get their daughter. He refused. She then threatened to call the police, at which point he grabbed their daughter and took off... for 2 weeks!
He was so afraid of the police catching him high (had previous drug-related charges) and wasn't thinking clearly that he panicked. Once he left the daycare he knew the worker had called so he left town, so as not to be caught high while driving WITH A CHILD in the car.
So now look how quickly this situation spiraled out of control. Imagine how much more erradic this man's driving was while he was planning an escape? He not only made his own situation much worse (kidnapping charges now added) but the child's in MUCH more danger in this particular situation rather than going straight home/the cops pulling them over on the way home!

[sharlan]

Doesn't matter where I live. The fear of being sued is not greater than the fear of myself or other daycare kids) being hurt by a potentially dangerous intoxicated person

Anyways, I just called my local police dept. and a police officer friend in Texas. Both said that all a childcare provider is required to do is report the suspected intoxication to authorities, nothing more - we are not legally responsibile for the child once the parent has taken them. Both police officers said that they would argue in court that the daycare provider was acting in the best interest of the group as a whole as opposed to one individual child. Both agreed that the liklihood of a parent winning a case trying to sue you for responsibility of the child/child's life that the other parent put in danger was nill.

I was refering to frivolous lawsuits.

[Angelsj]

Naive? Really?
I have been doing this for over 30 years, and I HAVE had this issue come up a few times. (maybe 5 to six, as well as one 'kidnapping' of a child from a schizophrenic parent who was just being medically abusive...grandma came and got the little one)

The conversation usually goes something like this:
"What do you mean I can't have my kid?!!!"
Me: "I did not say that. I said, you signed my policy book, which states *I* cannot release a child to someone who is obviously 'under the influence.' You are..so, here are your choices. I can call someone else to come get the child, or I can call the police and let them decide."
Only once has a parent argued past this point. I called the police. They came, and THANKED ME for being willing to protect the child.

It may be true that you could be prosecuted, but I cannot imagine a judge doing so, nor a law enforcement officer being upset.
It also has to do with presence and respect (and maybe a black belt in TKD), but parents do NOT argue with me...ever. In 30 years, no parent has EVER tried to get belligerent with me.