Parents Secretly Recording Daycare: Logged Out

[NightOwl]

Honestly I think it is Dot's poor parenting that has gotten her into this position. She has raised a child who lacks confidence and has little ability to adapt and is being raised by a fearful parent who expects the worst to happen while expecting someone else to prepare her child for school and the real world.

[Dot]

I'm happy to address some things that were said as a response. First, I'm not a helicopter parent, I do not rush her to the ER over minor scrapes or run in to assist her when she is trying new things. I also don't stand in the way of her Sunday school teacher disciplining her or re-punish her after the situation has passed. I have a son who is 19 and I learned from some mistakes I made the first time around so I'm more easy about letting her learn in her own ways.

I felt like I vetted this center, I went in with her and let her stay in class while I waited in the lobby and spoke with staff to give her an hour here and there to warm up to the idea. I made it clear to the staff that this was an early introduction to leaving her for short periods and I would call at lunch and nap time to see how her day was going, made it brief and got back off the phone. I stopped in unannounced once and only asked how it was going, I didn't make my appearance in the classroom or address the teacher just had an aid go see about her and tell me what they were doing (which was story time). After a few days I cut down to calling once a day usually around nap time once they were asleep. I read reviews and several times when I went to get her she didn't rush right over to me, she was playing so I took my time collecting stuff from her cubby and going over her chart of the day with the teacher. I was thrilled at how easy it went and even discussed increasing it to 3 days a week the following week. Then, on the 7th visit, I parked and could hear her crying loudly in the parking lot, when I keyed in my code and went in then the staff rushed back to her class, I went back and she ran to me right away. I asked the teacher what happened, did she fall or something and the afternoon shift teacher ignored me 3 times. She finally told me she didn't know, she was told by the day teacher that my daughter cried the whole day and then walked away to start some cleaning, I pressed her for more answers as the what she meant and is there a way I can talk with the day teacher but she had left at nap time during shift changes.

I consoled my daughter and asked at the desk but no one knew anything. I took her home and couldn't get anything really verbalized about what was wrong as she was somewhat delayed in speech. I called the center a bit later once she was calm and spoke with the director who said she'd look into it. I called the next day and the day teacher said she had a good day and doesn't know why she was crying or why the other teacher would say that she was told my child cried all day. Then I was told that wasn't the normal afternoon teacher, then was told that she was but doesn't remember what happened,

I did not take her back to the center and she suddenly had all sorts of separation anxiety which she hadn't had much of early on. It left me feeling too uncomfortable to take her back. I took the position of Sunday school teacher for that next quarter just so my daughter would go back into class and eventually was able to hand it off to another teacher for the following quarter. She eventually went back into Wednesday children's church without crying for us and I didn't hover or check up on them or question when she'd get into trouble.

Now, I don't intend to keep recordings and I would certainly hope someone isn't talking about death or miscarriage or their personal problems in front of my child or other children, there really is a time and place for those kinds of conversations and class time is not one of them. I'm not going to be using it to chastise her for doing something wrong or trying to "get some dirt" on staff members so I can go rush to the school board with an "ah-ha" accusation. But I will use it to see if my child is chattering away and listen for laughter or instruction. I will listen for crying and will wait to see how long that crying lasts. If, for example, I turn it on and hear her crying I will give a reasonable amount of time I know it takes her to bounce back but if it continues beyond 10 minutes, I'd drive over to "check in" on her in person.

I know you all think I'm completely wrong about my decision, that is your right to that opinion, but I do read the news, I do see videos of teachers putting their hands on children, gripping their faces, I do find video clips of autistic children who are either left for hours in neglect or are verbally and physically assaulted. I do see teachers appear on the news for molesting 18 of their young grade school students and it taking months to be discovered. So, I am very sorry that I have mistrust issues but they are not all unwarranted, I want to be able to check in on my child and until the day when all classrooms offer monitoring I'll go about different means to "check in". I won't be spending the entire school day in covert mode listening to 8 hours waiting for "something" to happen, I will, at times, when I wonder about her day turn on the device and have a listen for a few minutes to see how it's going. I expect to hear silence mostly from her, maybe children chattering, instruction, songs, snack or lunch time routines and I expect that eventually I will see that she's so happy with going that I'm made to feel more at ease and at that time I'll remove the device.

Again, you are welcome to disagree and even feel appalled by me, but that is not going to change my mind.

The caregiver who began this thread is exactly the kind of person who would make me question and mistrust and I'd pull my child from their daycare immediately. For all her talk about her child and parents' behaving in an "odd" way she is the one who behaved Odd in this thread and I doubt she will ever update or tell the truth about the matter. And she probably fed off of all her sympathy and fellow accusers and found a way to terminate that family, which, probably did them a favor since she felt their child was "odd" anyway.

If you feel enraged at the idea of cameras in the schools put yourself in the shoes of the parents of that young child who went to the bathroom on a pass and didn't return, he was found a while later hung by his belt lifeless in a bathroom stall. As a parent, wouldn't you want to know if he did it, did he go in alone? If someone else did it wouldn't you want them to be able to run back the tape and see who went in there right after him? Wouldn't you want those answers? That story was in the news just over a year ago, that was grade school and there are far too many unanswered questions. The molestation incident I talked about earlier was at a grade school somewhere else in this state, that teacher's privacy was so protected that he was able to molest over a dozen children before being found out. You can't put your child into a bubble at your home and protect them from the world their whole lives, you have to let go and allow them some normalcy. But you can do other things to try to make it safer for them.

You can read school reviews but you'll usually get lies on both ends either it gets described as a perfect school with high marks and there's never a single bad issue reported or you'll get so many "Jerry Springer moms" reporting all sorts of nonsense like "Timmy wasn't given extra time for his test" or "Those teachers have a vendetta against my child" or "My son was bullied and has never been a bully"....how can you get a real true sense of a place based on reviews or word of mouth. Just because they are good and kind to your child doesn't mean they will be to mine, just because you are angry at them because your kid gets bad grades and is problematic doesn't mean they are a bad teacher. So how else are you supposed to know if a place is the right for your child? And how are you supposed to get those answers from your child if they have speech and verbal delays? So, until she's able to articulate more coherently I'm going to have to take more drastic measures to ensure we have her in the right school or daycare.

[Play Care]

The caregiver who began this thread is exactly the kind of person who would make me question and mistrust and I'd pull my child from their daycare immediately. For all her talk about her child and parents' behaving in an "odd" way she is the one who behaved Odd in this thread and I doubt she will ever update or tell the truth about the matter. And she probably fed off of all her sympathy and fellow accusers and found a way to terminate that family, which, probably did them a favor since she felt their child was "odd" anyway.

I went back and reread the OP and several of her replies. I am not sure why you are so offended that she described the families behavior as odd. Does she not have that right? She went on to describe several, rather odd behaviors by the child and parents. She didn't say the child was bratty or the mom was a crazy or the child was a monster:confused: She seemed genuinely confused and upset by the behavior. You are absolutely right in that she should have termed, not because she (the provider) was odd, but because this family obviously made her uncomfortable enough to come and post to begin with.

Now, I don't intend to keep recordings and I would certainly hope someone isn't talking about death or miscarriage or their personal problems in front of my child or other children, there really is a time and place for those kind of conversations and class time is not one of them

Because you will be sound recording, you will have NO idea who is where. Maybe the staff will have your child keep the item at her desk while they go outside. Maybe they think they are alone in the room and have a parent conference or staff meeting. But frankly, how dare you think YOU decide when information gets shared. Obviously no professional would talk that way so the child can hear, but sometimes things need to be said when they need to be said. I know I've had to share updates with my assistant during class time. Obviously I make sure the children are engaged and not in ear shot. But if Tommy's father has a court order against him and can no longer pick up, that needs to be known ASAP. Or if Susie has a nasty diaper rash after a long weekend, and needs extra changes, that really can't wait.

I agree with the poster who suggested home schooling. It sounds as if you need to be "in charge" and this will give you that.

[Meyou]

I'm happy to address some things that were said as a response. First, I'm not a helicopter parent, I do not rush her to the ER over minor scrapes or run in to assist her when she is trying new things. I also don't stand in the way of her Sunday school teacher disciplining her or re-punish her after the situation has passed. I have a son who is 19 and I learned from some mistakes I made the first time around so I'm more easy about letting her learn in her own ways.

I felt like I vetted this center, I went in with her and let her stay in class while I waited in the lobby and spoke with staff to give her an hour here and there to warm up to the idea. I made it clear to the staff that this was an early introduction to leaving her for short periods and I would call at lunch and nap time to see how her day was going, made it brief and got back off the phone. I stopped in unannounced once and only asked how it was going, I didn't make my appearance in the classroom or address the teacher just had an aid go see about her and tell me what they were doing (which was story time). After a few days I cut down to calling once a day usually around nap time once they were asleep. I read reviews and several times when I went to get her she didn't rush right over to me, she was playing so I took my time collecting stuff from her cubby and going over her chart of the day with the teacher. I was thrilled at how easy it went and even discussed increasing it to 3 days a week the following week. Then, on the 7th visit, I parked and could hear her crying loudly in the parking lot, when I keyed in my code and went in then the staff rushed back to her class, I went back and she ran to me right away. I asked the teacher what happened, did she fall or something and the afternoon shift teacher ignored me 3 times. She finally told me she didn't know, she was told by the day teacher that my daughter cried the whole day and then walked away to start some cleaning, I pressed her for more answers as the what she meant and is there a way I can talk with the day teacher but she had left at nap time during shift changes.

I consoled my daughter and asked at the desk but no one knew anything. I took her home and couldn't get anything really verbalized about what was wrong as she was somewhat delayed in speech. I called the center a bit later once she was calm and spoke with the director who said she'd look into it. I called the next day and the day teacher said she had a good day and doesn't know why she was crying or why the other teacher would say that she was told my child cried all day. Then I was told that wasn't the normal afternoon teacher, then was told that she was but doesn't remember what happened,

I did not take her back to the center and she suddenly had all sorts of separation anxiety which she hadn't had much of early on. It left me feeling too uncomfortable to take her back. I took the position of Sunday school teacher for that next quarter just so my daughter would go back into class and eventually was able to hand it off to another teacher for the following quarter. She eventually went back into Wednesday children's church without crying for us and I didn't hover or check up on them or question when she'd get into trouble.

Now, I don't intend to keep recordings and I would certainly hope someone isn't talking about death or miscarriage or their personal problems in front of my child or other children, there really is a time and place for those kinds of conversations and class time is not one of them. I'm not going to be using it to chastise her for doing something wrong or trying to "get some dirt" on staff members so I can go rush to the school board with an "ah-ha" accusation. But I will use it to see if my child is chattering away and listen for laughter or instruction. I will listen for crying and will wait to see how long that crying lasts. If, for example, I turn it on and hear her crying I will give a reasonable amount of time I know it takes her to bounce back but if it continues beyond 10 minutes, I'd drive over to "check in" on her in person.

I know you all think I'm completely wrong about my decision, that is your right to that opinion, but I do read the news, I do see videos of teachers putting their hands on children, gripping their faces, I do find video clips of autistic children who are either left for hours in neglect or are verbally and physically assaulted. I do see teachers appear on the news for molesting 18 of their young grade school students and it taking months to be discovered. So, I am very sorry that I have mistrust issues but they are not all unwarranted, I want to be able to check in on my child and until the day when all classrooms offer monitoring I'll go about different means to "check in". I won't be spending the entire school day in covert mode listening to 8 hours waiting for "something" to happen, I will, at times, when I wonder about her day turn on the device and have a listen for a few minutes to see how it's going. I expect to hear silence mostly from her, maybe children chattering, instruction, songs, snack or lunch time routines and I expect that eventually I will see that she's so happy with going that I'm made to feel more at ease and at that time I'll remove the device.

Again, you are welcome to disagree and even feel appalled by me, but that is not going to change my mind.

The caregiver who began this thread is exactly the kind of person who would make me question and mistrust and I'd pull my child from their daycare immediately. For all her talk about her child and parents' behaving in an "odd" way she is the one who behaved Odd in this thread and I doubt she will ever update or tell the truth about the matter. And she probably fed off of all her sympathy and fellow accusers and found a way to terminate that family, which, probably did them a favor since she felt their child was "odd" anyway.

If you feel enraged at the idea of cameras in the schools put yourself in the shoes of the parents of that young child who went to the bathroom on a pass and didn't return, he was found a while later hung by his belt lifeless in a bathroom stall. As a parent, wouldn't you want to know if he did it, did he go in alone? If someone else did it wouldn't you want them to be able to run back the tape and see who went in there right after him? Wouldn't you want those answers? That story was in the news just over a year ago, that was grade school and there are far too many unanswered questions. The molestation incident I talked about earlier was at a grade school somewhere else in this state, that teacher's privacy was so protected that he was able to molest over a dozen children before being found out. You can't put your child into a bubble at your home and protect them from the world their whole lives, you have to let go and allow them some normalcy. But you can do other things to try to make it safer for them.

You can read school reviews but you'll usually get lies on both ends either it gets described as a perfect school with high marks and there's never a single bad issue reported or you'll get so many "Jerry Springer moms" reporting all sorts of nonsense like "Timmy wasn't given extra time for his test" or "Those teachers have a vendetta against my child" or "My son was bullied and has never been a bully"....how can you get a real true sense of a place based on reviews or word of mouth. Just because they are good and kind to your child doesn't mean they will be to mine, just because you are angry at them because your kid gets bad grades and is problematic doesn't mean they are a bad teacher. So how else are you supposed to know if a place is the right for your child? And how are you supposed to get those answers from your child if they have speech and verbal delays? So, until she's able to articulate more coherently I'm going to have to take more drastic measures to ensure we have her in the right school or daycare.

You need to quit your job and stay home with your child. You have trust issues that are clearly well above and beyond normal separation anxiety from your child. It is not normal to go to the worst case scenario at all times. Please consider seeking help.

[Unregistered]

I feel sorry for your child, Dot. You are crippling her. Kids pick up paranoia, whether you know not or not. You removed her from a daycare because she was crying? You are recording her incase she cries for more than 10 minutes and needs you? If your child is genuinely that fragile you need to home school. Other wise, you are setting her up for a big fall. I get the need to want to protect your kids. I have 3 of them, and there's nothing I wouldn't do to keep them safe. I have overprotective tendencies as well, which I why I quit my job to start a daycare and raise them. But record them at school? No way. Not in a million years.

Infringing on the rights of others just because you are afraid your child may have a little emotional adversity is rediculous. What are you teaching her, if mommy magically appears after 10 minutes of crying at school? You are robbing her of the opportunity to learn to trust others and be consoled by another trusted adult. I think you are the one with emotional issues, not your daughter.

I'd hate to see the psych bills in 15 years...

[nannyde]

Dot,

Your assurance of your child's safety does not trump the law. It's not whether or not it is illegal. It IS illegal. You don't get to break the law for the sake of your assurance of her safety.

Your story of the center experience is a perfect example of a parent making assumptions to further their "my child is the center of the universe". Your kid behaved like MILLIONS of threeyear olds after the first few weeks of new daycare. The honeymoon was over and the kid realizes it's better for them to have one to one care with their parents than be one of many. Very normal. We have all seen it a zillion times. You put words and talked story about it but to us it's just another day in the life. If you read the archives of this board and other daycare boards you would read your identical story in the identical time frames many times.

Your justification that you wouldn't listen to it all the time or publish it is silly. You only have to do it once for a second for it to be wiretapping. How often you do it doesn't matter.

You are one of a million parents who want to put recording devices on their kids for times.when they aren't with the kid. I've been reading these stories since the mini cassette recorders came out. It's nothing new but it's still illegal. The recordings you see of kids in school are cameras the school has up or employees have shot. Can you give me an example of one where parents planted a camera on their kid?

One more thing. Your idea that the staff shouldn't discuss private stuff around your kid is ridiculous. I have always had a helper and they have been with me for four, five, seven years. We become close and we share our lives every day. We KNOW how to talk to each other around the kids without the kids having the ability to decipher what we are saying. We become adept at spelling out key words in sentences and renaming target people in the convo so any little ears could not know of whom we speak. Big ears would have it figured out in seconds. I have had THOUSANDS of conversations with my son, staff, and on the phone within ear shot of the kids that I would NEVER want to be heard by a daycare parent. Thousands upon thousands.

There are many people who have your concerns. They act by homeschooling not by committing a crime. Your child's safety is not more important than my kids right to privacy. You aren't special and your kid isn't either. If you are going to leave her in public then public trumps her. We have laws that demand it.

[CraftyMom]

I don't have much to add other than what the other providers have said.

I just wanted to add that this topic obviously strikes a cord, probably on both sides. I read this thread a few days ago and just checked back in. I was amazed at the number of views it received!

I totally understand both sides though! I am a mother of 3 who would do anything to protect my kids. However I realize that if what I feel is necessary to protect my kids (a camera or recording device for example) or if I so thoroughly distrusted ALL schools, then I WOULDNT PUT MY CHILD IN ONE!!!

There are options. HOMESCHOOL OR FIND A SCHOOL THAT USES CAMERAS! Don't break the law doing it yourself. There are plenty of schools that have cameras and you have the right to send your child to one. Go with the law not against it.

Learn your rights and use them, not create your own. Imagine if we all did that!

You have the right to send your child to school and feel safe doing so. Do that by making the right decisions and choosing the right school. Not choosing a school based on location or cost and then creating your own rules

[NightOwl]

If I knew of a way to find out who you are, I would contact your school district and tell them of your plans. No joke. You sound like an intelligent person with good intentions, however that won't matter in a court of law. You will probably do time if/when you are discovered. Have you considered that? How's it going to affect your daughter's frailty when mommy is in jail for a few months for wiretapping? You have obviously thought out every reason for why it's acceptable for you to do this, and you say you don't care that it's illegal, but you haven't thought about the consequences of actually following through with it.

[daycaremum]

If I knew of a way to find out who you are, I would contact your school district and tell them of your plans. No joke. You sound like an intelligent person with good intentions, however that won't matter in a court of law. You will probably do time if/when you are discovered. Have you considered that? How's it going to affect your daughter's frailty when mommy is in jail for a few months for wiretapping? You have obviously thought out every reason for why it's acceptable for you to do this, and you say you don't care that it's illegal, but you haven't thought about the consequences of actually following through with it.

Wednesday, I understand that you are feeling strongly about this, but it is comments like this that make people reading not want to ever post anything in fear of someone hunting them down. Threats are inappropriate.

[TaylorTots]

Dot is a perfect example of why each DCP needs to be picky not only with the children they provide to, but also the parents of the children. I make sure all my parents are playing with a full deck of cards before agreeing to care for their children.

Contemplating breaking intrusion of solitude privacy laws without concern for those you harm means this mom is definitely missing some cards in her deck and honestly, never learned the golden rule. So sad.

[NightOwl]

Wednesday, I understand that you are feeling strongly about this, but it is comments like this that make people reading not want to ever post anything in fear of someone hunting them down. Threats are inappropriate.

If she is doing something blatantly illegal, I would feel obligated to report her if I knew who she was. That's what I meant. It's not a threat. It's just a fact. See something, say something is the official motto of my local police department. So, if I knew who she was, I would say something. That's being a responsible citizen, not trying to intimidate/threaten her.
And considering i have no clue who she is, there's no way I can pose a threat to someone I don't know and have no way of finding out who she is.

[Blackcat31]

Wednesday, I understand that you are feeling strongly about this, but it is comments like this that make people reading not want to ever post anything in fear of someone hunting them down. Threats are inappropriate.

I didn't feel that Wednesday was threatening anyone. Dot is posting on a PUBLIC forum.

When you post something on a public forum or on the internet you give up any right to privacy in a sense.
You may think you have a right to privacy and to a certain extent you do but not really kwim?

Once you write something and hit that post button, it is no longer your private property so to speak.

I also disagree that people reading will be discouraged or fearful as I have read ALL kinds of things on the internet and this board that amaze me daily.

Seems in this day and age, people thrive on the drama and attention the internet brings.....Facebook, Twitter, SnapChat etc etc.....

If Dot was worried about people finding out who she is, then she should have kept her thoughts and intentions to herself and not put them on a PUBLIC forum for 5,000+ registered members and millions of anonymous readers to view.

[NightOwl]

I didn't feel that Wednesday was threatening anyone. Dot is posting on a PUBLIC forum.

When you post something on a public forum or on the internet you give up any right to privacy in a sense.
You may think you have a right to privacy and to a certain extent you do but not really kwim?

Once you write something and hit that post button, it is no longer your private property so to speak.

I also disagree that people reading will be discouraged or fearful as I have read ALL kinds of things on the internet and this board that amaze me daily.

Seems in this day and age, people thrive on the drama the attention the internet brings.....Facebook, Twitter, SnapChat etc etc.....

If Dot was worried about people finding out who she is, then she should have kept her thoughts and intentions to herself and not put them on a PUBLIC forum for 5,000+ registered members and millions of anonymous readers to view.

Thanks BC.

[TwinKristi]

If I knew of a way to find out who you are, I would contact your school district and tell them of your plans. No joke. You sound like an intelligent person with good intentions, however that won't matter in a court of law. You will probably do time if/when you are discovered. Have you considered that? How's it going to affect your daughter's frailty when mommy is in jail for a few months for wiretapping? You have obviously thought out every reason for why it's acceptable for you to do this, and you say you don't care that it's illegal, but you haven't thought about the consequences of actually following through with it.

A forum I used to frequent had some serious super sleuth abilities and DID call the police on people, turn them into CPS, report them to social services for welfare fraud... the list goes on. I believe the admins are able to get an IP address from posts and can find out who this is IF they felt the need to. Unfortunately we see all sorts of dummies on this forum who say crazy things because they're "anonymous" when really they're not. What she's saying she WANTS to do vs what she HAS done is different. Sadly, I'm sure the school will pick up on this mom's odd behavior as well. I hope they find the recording device and bust her!

You need to quit your job and stay home with your child. You have trust issues that are clearly well above and beyond normal separation anxiety from your child. It is not normal to go to the worst case scenario at all times. Please consider seeking help.

I can be an adult and admit that I had major trust issues after a horrific experience with my provider, I DID quit my job and stay home with my children. It was a huge sacrifice but I had to do it for my own sanity. Otherwise I probably would have resorted to things like this to comfort myself. But instead of being "that mom" I decided to open my own home daycare where moms could record me or drop in unannounced and the worst they'd find is 22 mins of Dragon Tales, a box of scattered Legos or dishes in the sink.

[Dot]

I will bear in mind what someone else said about a back pack left in the classroom, that is the only point I will concede and take into consideration. I will not be baited into throwing insults or name calling in return because those of you who have said things to or about me are within your legal rights to do so. I will say that the times are changing and schools and day cares are going to need to get more used to less privacy and more monitoring. I'm not going to prevent my child from having a public or chartered education but I'm also going to be proactive in making sure she is at a comfortable school environment.

I do not need to quit my job as my job allows me to work in my home as a seamstress and sell my items online and while so many would really love to classify me as mentally disturbed or lacking, the world is a changing place and we must adapt with it until technology catches up. Unfortunately, there are not many schools that offer in class monitoring yet although I think that's a good idea.

This post came up in a google search and while I understand the tendency for day care providers to rally round one another to take their side, in real life and outside your circle I doubt many of you would have this provider as your day care for your child. Her post struck a cord in me and reinforces my concerns about the front that people put on in front of you than when you are gone and her wording and continued insinuations toward the parents and child sent a red flag up for me. If some people here were honest they would say it went off and rang false to them too but I understand that in a forum community no one is going to go against the grain.

I won't continue to post or comment on other threads, I haven't explored any other part of this forum, I just ran across this out of nowhere and I felt like someone needed to say something about how parents feel these days. So no need to worry about me, I'm just passing through, but I do hope that some people think about it and consider the tough choices that parents have to make these days when choosing schools and day cares and who to trust with their children.