So What Do You Do With A Misbehaving Toddler Under 2 In California?

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  • Sugar Magnolia
    Blossoms Blooming
    • Apr 2011
    • 2647

    #16
    Using 1-2-3 is really redirection. It says "I an giving you the opportunity to redirect YOURSELF before I have to help you find an alternate activity."

    Comment

    • Sugar Magnolia
      Blossoms Blooming
      • Apr 2011
      • 2647

      #17
      Originally posted by Cat Herder
      I am not in CA, but our rules are the same. (Edit: We are not allowed to use time out at all. It is the most commonly abused/misused method so they just took it away.)

      For discipline I expect certain behaviors before they happen, recognize the root issues/behaviors and prevent them from escalating. If they beat me to the punch and display an unwanted behavior, redirection is my only recourse.

      If my redirections are not working with a particular child after I have given it my best effort, to include a signed discipline plan, a specified period of intervention time and MUCH documentation, I know I am unable to meet this childs needs.

      I term when I can not meet the childs needs.

      I know it sounds simplistic, but most of this is about getting rid of the emotional response, tempering it with a preplan and "professional" language.
      I think cat herder has the best response yet.

      Comment

      • Cat Herder
        Advanced Daycare.com Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 13744

        #18
        Originally posted by Sugar Magnolia
        I think cat herder has the best response yet.
        Thank you, Sugar lovethis It is what they are teaching in Developmental Discipline classes, now. It is something I think most of us do naturally, but simply did not have the words to describe. I rarely have behavioral issues at all, now.

        The trick is to understand the difference between the words discipline (to teach) and punishment (obvious?).

        Daycare Providers are never to punish. Only Parents are allowed to decide what punishment technique works best for their family, I should have no opinion or say in it.

        Once I got that fact, the light bulb went off and the rest fell in place.


        OP, Are you required to attend mandatory training to operate in your state? Is it readily available? If not I am not sure how they can legally hold you responsible for that information. Is it in your guidlines, handbooks or regs anywhere???
        - Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.

        Comment

        • Blackcat31
          • Oct 2010
          • 36124

          #19
          Originally posted by Cat Herder
          Thank you, Sugar lovethis It is what they are teaching in Developmental Discipline classes, now. It is something I think most of us do naturally, but simply did not have the words to describe. I rarely have behavioral issues at all, now.

          The trick is to understand the difference between the words discipline (to teach) and punishment (obvious?).

          Daycare Providers are never to punish. Only Parents are allowed to decide what punishment technique works best for their family, I should have no opinion or say in it.

          Once I got that fact, the light bulb went off and the rest fell in place.
          There is also no such thing as "misbehavior" or "bad behavior"....only "mistaken" behavior.

          Comment

          • Kimberli
            Daycare.com Member
            • Aug 2012
            • 93

            #20
            Great discussion and I value everyone's opinion.

            In response to Magnolia's curiosity about what my time out looked like in this case was that I sat this child next to me on the floor directly beside an upholstered green bench I have against the main wall in the center of my playroom (where all the other children were still playing) for about 2 minutes (I have an apple shaped timer I set and use for the older kids) and sat next to him while we (hopefully) short-circuited his behavior jags. When I let him up I gave simple commands like "play nice" or "no climbing" or "be gentle". During the last few days of his care, this was multiple times as he would RUN from one thing to the next that he KNEW he was NOT supposed to do and DO IT INTENTIONALLY to see if he could get a rise out of me. No one will EVER convince me he did not know exactly what he was doing!

            Totally toddler? Yes! But when it became excessive and the behaviors were no longer knocking toys on the floor, spitting into the air or taking a toy from a friend but instead became shoving kids his own size and bigger face first into the carpet and pulling over my Little Tikes Kitchen, I knew that he was a danger to both himself and others, I made the decision to term.

            My mistake? I let him stay until the end of the day, used the method above and tons of redirection multiple times, and told his Mom he was termed at pick up time rather than phoning her at work (which she probably would not have answered!) and making her leave her job and come get him mid-day.

            What have I learned from this experience? You cannot afford to be too 'nice' to your daycare families and a business is a business. I have to take responsibility for not enforcing my own rules to the severe degree that I am being held accountable for my (innocently misgiven) actions. I totally thought I was being thoughtful to this entire family - so the appreciation I get is that she is suing me. Gee thanks so much.

            Sorry to say, never again.

            And if I were to be honest - of the current 6 children I have in my daycare, I probably should term 2 of them because they have had behavior problems that require consistent redirection and correction - but guess what? I can't do that because I won't be able to pay my rent if I do. ... Reality.

            I try to embrace each child I watch as unique. I treat them all the same and I treat them all differently. I want them to leave better than when they came. I want them to learn. I want them to grow. The State wants me to supervise from the corner with a smile on my face no matter what and the parents want me to turn their children into scholars and citizens who can rise to the top of the heap when they start school but not to ever correct their behavior. I can't possibly meet everyone's agenda. I am frustrated. The end.

            Comment

            • Cat Herder
              Advanced Daycare.com Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 13744

              #21
              Originally posted by Blackcat31
              There is also no such thing as "misbehavior" or "bad behavior"....only "mistaken" behavior.
              :::: Here they termed it "unwanted". I guess we all get to choose what those things are...

              I stick with redirecting violent, gross aka "unhygienic" (diaper digging, etc.) or destructive behaviors. Everything else I choose to ignore.

              I read this morning that I can ignore passively or actively... I shall investigate this technique further when I stop procrastinating here... muahaha
              - Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.

              Comment

              • Michelle
                Daycare.com Member
                • Jan 2011
                • 1932

                #22
                Originally posted by Blackcat31
                There is also no such thing as "misbehavior" or "bad behavior"....only "mistaken" behavior.
                holy cow!!! I think our great grandparents would be laughing their heads off at all of this!!! In the old days....kid bites other child= kids got a swat= end of story=kid didn't bite anymore or as much = kids learn to be respectful to others and grew up just fine undamaged

                Kids are very smart!

                I have seen 20 month old kids tell other 21 month old kids " no you get trouble! no hit me"

                kids are very manipulative: I had a 3 year old foster child tell me "if I be a bad girl then I can go back to mommy" ( which explained a lot of her behavior)
                I know sad situation, she thought that's why she was taken away.

                Then I had a 4 year tell me that if I don't give her cookie she will tell her mom that I am mean and that I won't make any more money...
                These were all years ago but kids are a lot smarter than "doctors" give them credit for.

                Comment

                • mom2many
                  Daycare.com Member
                  • Jun 2011
                  • 1278

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Sugar Magnolia
                  Mom2many, I get that the law there is vague and grayish. That is not fair to providers. Yep, kids are smart and your child in care probably did totally get it. But perhaps the OP's child did not get it. My thought was that the OP put this child in time out multiple times, so I am thinking he didn't get it. I think there is also a lot of misconception about what time out is. Can any of you ladies (and Dave) list what you define as "time out?" I will go first: time out is when a child is removed from the other chilrens play area when they are physically or emotionally out of control (tantrum) and their actions have or may have physically injured another child. When the tantrum has passed, they are then required to talk to the provider about what happened, why it happened and what they will do differently next time. But that is my opinion. Other opinions appreciated. I hope the OP will clarify exactly what she did with this child as a "time out"???
                  I define "time out" in the exact way you described above. The only difference is that I don't expect to have any dialogue back and forth with a child this young. I use it only to give a child the chance to calm down if their emotions are out of control or if they have shown aggressive behavior towards another child. I use it as a teaching moment to help the child learn it's not okay to hurt others or be emotionally out of control. I separate them momentarily from playing with the other children and use simple phrases to emphasize that the behavior was not okay, just as the OP described.... "play nice" or "be gentle". It's actually just a time for them to "disengage" from the situation and I don't consider it punishment or use it as such.

                  Comment

                  • mom2many
                    Daycare.com Member
                    • Jun 2011
                    • 1278

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Michelle
                    holy cow!!! I think our great grandparents would be laughing their heads off at all of this!!! In the old days....kid bites other child= kids got a swat= end of story=kid didn't bite anymore or as much = kids learn to be respectful to others and grew up just fine undamaged

                    Kids are verysmart!

                    I have seen 20 month old kids tell other 21 month old kids " no you get trouble! no hit me"

                    kids are very manipulative: I had a 3 year old foster child tell me "if I be a bad girl then I can go back to mommy" ( which explained a lot of her behavior)
                    I know sad situation, she thought that's why she was taken away.

                    Then I had a 4 year tell me that if I don't give her cookie she will tell her mom that I am mean and that I won't make any more money...
                    These were all years ago but kids are a lot smarter than "doctors" give them credit for.
                    I couldn't agree with you more!

                    Comment

                    • daycare
                      Advanced Daycare.com *********
                      • Feb 2011
                      • 16259

                      #25
                      Originally posted by mom2many
                      I couldn't agree with you more!
                      hahha I laugh so much at this....becuase when I was growing up one time I bite my mom and she bit me back....

                      I guess you could say I grew up where it was an eye for an eye.....Im sure that has never happend here

                      Comment

                      • Kimberli
                        Daycare.com Member
                        • Aug 2012
                        • 93

                        #26
                        What? We can't bite our day care kids?

                        Just kidding! Just kidding!!!

                        I CANNOT afford to lose my sense of humor at this point! LOL!

                        Comment

                        • daycare
                          Advanced Daycare.com *********
                          • Feb 2011
                          • 16259

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Kimberli
                          What? We can't bite our day care kids?

                          Just kidding! Just kidding!!!

                          I CANNOT afford to lose my sense of humor at this point! LOL!
                          ...its ok.... you deserve a laugh after all the crap you have been dragged through....

                          Comment

                          • mom2many
                            Daycare.com Member
                            • Jun 2011
                            • 1278

                            #28
                            Originally posted by daycare
                            ...its ok.... you deserve a laugh after all the crap you have been dragged through....
                            Yes, so true!!!!!!

                            Comment

                            • sharlan
                              Daycare.com Member
                              • May 2011
                              • 6067

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Michelle
                              holy cow!!! I think our great grandparents would be laughing their heads off at all of this!!! In the old days....kid bites other child= kids got a swat= end of story=kid didn't bite anymore or as much = kids learn to be respectful to others and grew up just fine undamaged

                              Kids are very smart!

                              I have seen 20 month old kids tell other 21 month old kids " no you get trouble! no hit me"

                              kids are very manipulative: I had a 3 year old foster child tell me "if I be a bad girl then I can go back to mommy" ( which explained a lot of her behavior)
                              I know sad situation, she thought that's why she was taken away.

                              Then I had a 4 year tell me that if I don't give her cookie she will tell her mom that I am mean and that I won't make any more money...
                              These were all years ago but kids are a lot smarter than "doctors" give them credit for.
                              I'm not my great grandparents, but I am shaking my head at the newer philosophies. I believed in a (one) quick swat on a bottom end, many consider it abuse and since licensing is of that belief, I don't do it. I really think we are raising a generation of self-centered, entitled brats

                              Discussion last week after 4 yo cut his shirt with the scissors.

                              Him - I cut my shirt.
                              Me - Why?
                              Him - It was an accident.
                              Me - Look at me. Why did you cut your shirt?
                              Him - It was an accident.
                              Me - No, it was not an accident. You intentionally cut your shirt. We will have to discuss this with Mommy.
                              Him - Well, if I tell Mommy it was an accident, she won't get mad at me.
                              Me - That would be lying and we don't tell lies. I want you to tell Mommy the truth.

                              That night:
                              Me - He cut his shirt during scissor time today.
                              Mom - Why did you cut your shirt?
                              Him - It was an accident.
                              Me - No, we tell the truth.
                              Him - Well, Mommy doesn't get mad when I say it was an accident.

                              End of discussion as he ran off to play. Mommy laughed and shook her head at her little angel. No repercussion, no discipline.

                              Comment

                              • sharlan
                                Daycare.com Member
                                • May 2011
                                • 6067

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Kimberli
                                What? We can't bite our day care kids?

                                Just kidding! Just kidding!!!

                                I CANNOT afford to lose my sense of humor at this point! LOL!


                                Licensing didn't think my idea of a velcro wall was very funny, either.

                                Comment

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