Would You Do It?

[daycare]

I have a DCG that is 4 years old and is no where near PT.

The parents started PT the girl when she was only 19 months old. Way before being ready. I have had the child for almost 9+ months.

I Have told the family that I am not going to keep putting the child on the toilet as they requested every 30 minutes. In fact a few weeks ago, I told the parents that I would no longer participate or assit with potty training, because I found out the the girl is being punished at home when she has accidents and the child breaks down in frustration daily when being told to use the toilet.


Since I have told the parents that I would not continue this, they have asked me if i would keep the 4 year old in my 20months to 2year old room and keep her there until she starts using the toilet. Basically saying since you still wear diapers and cant use the potty you have to play with the babies and can't use the big kid toys.

I am not too sure I am on board with this. I know that at a lot of centers kids can't go to the bigger kids rooms until they are PT.

The parents say that she does not go because she is lazy. I say she does not go, because the adults in her life are trained to put her on the toilet and she has been doing it for so long without success that she has no desire to PT anymore. NOt to forget to mention that the parents turned it into a negative process by punishing the DCG.

Usually I do what works for me here. I can't change or control what goes on at home, but I also don't know if what the parents are asking me to do is a good idea or not.

What I have been doing is just leaving the child be. She has not used the toilet once since I stopped telling her to go. I make her change herself on our potty breaks since all she has to do is take off her pull up and throw it in the trash can.

What is your take on this? Would you have the DCG stay in the younger classroom? BTW I am not a center, I am a home-preschool....

[SilverSabre25]

OH goodness that sounds a lot like my dcg who finally potty trained a few months ago! I did pretty much the same thing, I backed completely off of her for awhile, started having her handle the changes herself, and then slowly started just offering her the potty every time we had a scheduled bathroom break. It must have been awhile, but eventually she got it herself within about two weeks. I could tell when she made the shift of understanding.

That said, four is getting awfully old to still not be potty trained. BUT I would not keep her with the babies. Tell the parents, "Legally, I can't do that--it's humiliation and against the regulations."

Can you try sitting down with her and talking about how she's not going to get in trouble one way or the other at your house, that she's safe but she's getting to be such a big girl that it's time to use the potty for you. Maybe offer her some kind of prize, just between the two of you, for starting to use the potty. Maybe she's really shy and needs to be able to use the potty alone, with no one knowing that she's doing it? Maybe invent a "code phrase" that she can use to tell you she needs to go?

[cheerfuldom]

I would never put a 4 year old in with the babies. That is a punishment for not potty training AND the under 2 year old room is not developmentally appropriate for a 4 year old. The whole thing is ridiculous and the parents are manipulating you to get what they want....that being the 4 year old seeing a visual punishment for not progressing with potty training. They are trying to shame her into training by saying "See, Ms. X puts you in with babies and thats because you wear diapers like a baby"

[Breezy]

My two cents is this.... And my husband probably wouldn't like me telling you all this, hehe.

My husband is very weird about going to the bathroom. He HAS to empty his bladder the moment he feels it a little bit full. And if he doesnt feel an urge before bed he will go anyhow even if he JUST went. Literally maybe 5 times before he falls asleep. The reason? He wet the bed when he was younger and his mom yelled at him, punished him for days, called him a baby and made him clean it up in the middle of the night.

So nope, I don't think I would. I think I would just do what you're doing and back off for a bit.

[Willow]

I would not keep her with the babies. Tell the parents, "Legally, I can't do that--it's humiliation and against the regulations."

Not just humiliation but cruel and unusual punishment!!!




OP - I would tell them you refuse to participate in psychologically harming a child, especially in that way.

I'd also remind them no other licensed daycare would agree to do that (aka - treat her so horribly) either.

[sharlan]

No, I would not agree to punish her by keeping her with the babies.

I would tell the parents to stop ALL potty training at this point, give it a rest for a month. It's obvious that their method is not working. Provide them with the right info and start over again.

[saved4always]

I would never put a 4 year old in with the babies. That is a punishment for not potty training AND the under 2 year old room is not developmentally appropriate for a 4 year old. The whole thing is ridiculous and the parents are manipulating you to get what they want....that being the 4 year old seeing a visual punishment for not progressing with potty training. They are trying to shame her into training by saying "See, Ms. X puts you in with babies and thats because you wear diapers like a baby"

Exactly this...they are going to use this as a punishment for not PT. Sounds to me that the parents totally messed this up and now want to pull you into doing thier shaming her into getting trained.

When my son turned 3 years old, he went to a center while I worked and he was still in pull ups. I was told by the director that he needed to move to the 3's room because he was too big to be in the toddler room but he had to be totally potty trained to move up. If he was not trained, I would have to keep him home til I got him trained. Luckily for us, he was more in the pull ups because I was afraid he'd have an accident at dc. I put him in underwear right away and he only had one accident there and that was that. Leaving my son in the toddler room was not an option and they appropriately put the ball fully in MY court on getting him trained.

[daycare]

thanks so much everyone for responding....

I would have never thought to do such a thing, but when the DCM said to me well they do it at centers, I have to admit, I thought about it for a second.

I really wish that I could put this back on the parents, but I have tried my heart out to talk to them of doing it the right way, however, it didn't work.

I am just going to keep on doing what I am doing. I will also tell the parents that we will just go on with our day as though the bathroom issue is a NON-issue and I will NOT allow for her to stay with the LOs.

thanks again everyone for your advice, thoughts, help, stories and support...

If only I could really get the parents to see that they are doing more harm than good...............

[Country Kids]

Yes, I was going to say we have centers here that won't even accept a child unless they are potty trained. They have to be fully potty trained to even attend.

Another is I have heard that centers won't move a child up until potty train but like the one poster said they totally, totally put it back on the parents to get it going.

[daycare]

My two cents is this.... And my husband probably wouldn't like me telling you all this, hehe.

My husband is very weird about going to the bathroom. He HAS to empty his bladder the moment he feels it a little bit full. And if he doesnt feel an urge before bed he will go anyhow even if he JUST went. Literally maybe 5 times before he falls asleep. The reason? He wet the bed when he was younger and his mom yelled at him, punished him for days, called him a baby and made him clean it up in the middle of the night.

So nope, I don't think I would. I think I would just do what you're doing and back off for a bit.

gosh how sad. I feel so bad for her. I really wish there was some way that I could get the parents to just back off and leave it be. They don't see that they are creating a bad situation for her and they think that by continuing to push her she will eventually get it.....well its been over 2 years of it and the child has not gotten it....AND either have the parents.

[cheerfuldom]

thanks so much everyone for responding....

I would have never thought to do such a thing, but when the DCM said to me well they do it at centers, I have to admit, I thought about it for a second.

I really wish that I could put this back on the parents, but I have tried my heart out to talk to them of doing it the right way, however, it didn't work.

I am just going to keep on doing what I am doing. I will also tell the parents that we will just go on with our day as though the bathroom issue is a NON-issue and I will NOT allow for her to stay with the LOs.

thanks again everyone for your advice, thoughts, help, stories and support...

If only I could really get the parents to see that they are doing more harm than good...............

What center would put a 4 year old with kids TWO years or MORE, younger than them?!?!? Thats ridiculous. I know sometimes centers do a little wiggling within like 6 months of age but asking for a 2 year difference or more in age is just outrageous. These parents are being so hateful about the potty training....WANTING their child to be humiliated at daycare and put with babies so she is shamed into using the potty? I just feel really bad for this little one. I know having a 4 year old in diapers is exhausting but using these tactics to deal with it is never okay.

If the mom kept using the "the centers will do it" then I would say "If it is that important to you, you are welcome to find a center that would be willing to put a 4 year old in with toddlers and babies. I wont be doing that here but let me know if you find some other place willing to do that for you"

[daycare]

What center would put a 4 year old with kids TWO years or MORE, younger than them?!?!? Thats ridiculous. I know sometimes centers do a little wiggling within like 6 months of age but asking for a 2 year difference or more in age is just outrageous. These parents are being so hateful about the potty training....WANTING their child to be humiliated at daycare and put with babies so she is shamed into using the potty? I just feel really bad for this little one. I know having a 4 year old in diapers is exhausting but using these tactics to deal with it is never okay.

If the mom kept using the "the centers will do it" then I would say "If it is that important to you, you are welcome to find a center that would be willing to put a 4 year old in with toddlers and babies. I wont be doing that here but let me know if you find some other place willing to do that for you"

I don't think these parents know what they are talking about at all....that is why I had to reach out to the form, because I was sitting here telling myself, this just does not sound right to me at all. I know that my nephew was held back into the 3 year old room when he was supposed to promote to the 4 year old room because he still took naps daily and the 4 year old class did not...I guess this is also why I pondered it for a moment.

I just talked to the DCM via phone and she said that she does not expect me to do this at my house, but that she will continue to hold things over her head until she uses the toliet. I told her maybe we should just all stop all together like I have been doing and give the poor girl a break, but mom wants to push forward. I told her that she needed to do what she felt was best for her daughter at home and that I would do the same here.

We left it at that..................

[Countrygal]

thanks so much everyone for responding....

I would have never thought to do such a thing, but when the DCM said to me well they do it at centers, I have to admit, I thought about it for a second.

I really wish that I could put this back on the parents, but I have tried my heart out to talk to them of doing it the right way, however, it didn't work.

I am just going to keep on doing what I am doing. I will also tell the parents that we will just go on with our day as though the bathroom issue is a NON-issue and I will NOT allow for her to stay with the LOs.

thanks again everyone for your advice, thoughts, help, stories and support...

If only I could really get the parents to see that they are doing more harm than good...............

I had one family with these exact issues. But the dcb was a year younger. I copied papers on potty training for them, and talked to them about it several times. I feel some children just aren't ready as early as others, more often boys are later. My dgs was very late potty training (over 4). It's not as uncommon as a person would think. Two years later he still wets through at night (runs in the family).

IMO, the kids who arent ready to pt, whether it be for physical or emotional reasons (or even stubbornness, for that matter) won't potty train.

But as I was constantly reminded (and IS true) - I'm not a child psychologist. However, I can read papers by child psychologists and everyone I've seen says the same thing. Pushing a child only makes it worse.

That said, I had to understand that the child is theirs, not mine, and other than making suggestions and not "helping" them to do what I consider is "wrong", that's about all I could do. It used to really tear me up. These people left because of these types of differences in our thinking, and I was not too sad about it.....